It's time to move on.
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Smalltown
Originally Posted by mikegarrison,Sep 29 2008, 02:49 PM
Everyone gets to make their own personal Outcast Island via the ignore button.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 34,131
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From: Canton, MA
Originally Posted by mikegarrison,Sep 29 2008, 01:49 PM
Everyone gets to make their own personal Outcast Island via the ignore button.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Covington WA, USA
Originally Posted by Legal Bill,Sep 29 2008, 11:58 AM
True, but heck, people can't resist watching a fight. That's why they can charge money to see them. Plus, when you put the PITA on your ignore button, you don't know what they are writing about you.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 65,409
Likes: 4,695
From: Smalltown
Originally Posted by Legal Bill,Sep 29 2008, 02:58 PM
True, but heck, people can't resist watching a fight. That's why they can charge money to see them. Plus, when you put the PITA on your ignore button, you don't know what they are writing about you.
= JOKING!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 33,171
Likes: 1,639
From: Randolph, NJ
Ken,
As we discussed this weekend, I don't really disagree with much of what you've said. My only question is if we want to discuss something more serious, where do we do it? My fear in doing away with the politics subforum is that we will also be doing away with adult conversation. We will lose a lot of what makes and has made Vintage worthwhile to begin with.
If your plan includes allowing that type of discussion in the regular forum, I'm all for it, if not, I really don't want to see discussions moved to the regular politics or off topic forums for exactly the same reasons that Vintage was formed to begin with.
I really think the answer begins with the proper moderation/CO and ends with everybody living up to the traditions/standards that the Vintage Forum was founded on. Without those, it really doesn't matter what you call the forum or where you put it, this will happen over and over again.
By the way, don't be misled into thinking that there aren't dustups over at S2KCA either. There are, its just that the moderators act more quickly, with more of an even hand, and with less sarcasim. These things will happen anywhere, the real solution is in how they are dealt with.
As we discussed this weekend, I don't really disagree with much of what you've said. My only question is if we want to discuss something more serious, where do we do it? My fear in doing away with the politics subforum is that we will also be doing away with adult conversation. We will lose a lot of what makes and has made Vintage worthwhile to begin with.
If your plan includes allowing that type of discussion in the regular forum, I'm all for it, if not, I really don't want to see discussions moved to the regular politics or off topic forums for exactly the same reasons that Vintage was formed to begin with.
I really think the answer begins with the proper moderation/CO and ends with everybody living up to the traditions/standards that the Vintage Forum was founded on. Without those, it really doesn't matter what you call the forum or where you put it, this will happen over and over again.
By the way, don't be misled into thinking that there aren't dustups over at S2KCA either. There are, its just that the moderators act more quickly, with more of an even hand, and with less sarcasim. These things will happen anywhere, the real solution is in how they are dealt with.
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Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Montgomery, NY
Originally Posted by Legal Bill,Sep 29 2008, 02:58 PM
Plus, when you put the PITA on your ignore button, you don't know what they are writing about you.
"post by PTBMH ignored"
AND you still see quoted posts by that person.
I hope I don't get voted off the island
Although with some of the posts lately I visit here less and less 
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Covington WA, USA
Originally Posted by Lainey,Sep 29 2008, 12:22 PM
I can see this going downhill fast. Who gets to decide what proper moderation is? The armchair quarterbacks who have made a CO's job nothing but a PIA.
It seems one of the "original founders" is always in the forefront of these issues/dust ups. I don't get it. I truly don't get it.
We have had four, count them FOUR CO's leave because of issues like this. Do you not see a pattern here? We "elect" folks to keep the community going, to try to keep peace in the community, and a select few apparently NEVER approve of those who are at the helm.
The CO's actions are questioned at every turn. Little digs are thrown. Any action within a thread by a CO is questioned, too much moderation, over moderation, not enough tact with moderation.... It seems like others always think they can do a better job.....so Vintage can be like the old days.....The old days are gone. They aren't coming back.
A few of you have seen to that.
Edited to add more thoughts.
It seems one of the "original founders" is always in the forefront of these issues/dust ups. I don't get it. I truly don't get it.
We have had four, count them FOUR CO's leave because of issues like this. Do you not see a pattern here? We "elect" folks to keep the community going, to try to keep peace in the community, and a select few apparently NEVER approve of those who are at the helm.
The CO's actions are questioned at every turn. Little digs are thrown. Any action within a thread by a CO is questioned, too much moderation, over moderation, not enough tact with moderation.... It seems like others always think they can do a better job.....so Vintage can be like the old days.....The old days are gone. They aren't coming back.
A few of you have seen to that.
Edited to add more thoughts.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 45,849
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From: Mish-she-gan
I believe the basic premise is that car clubs should be fun. So I'll give you my 2 cents.
I believe the less rules the better.
I understand where Ken is coming from, religion and politics are two topics that always bring out 'line in sand' attitudes and often hurt feelings. Still, I'd like to think the majority of the members are adult enough to post comments without making them offensive. If not close the thread!
There have been some really mean spirited comments made and they have no place in car club. As long as either side is looking for a fight or feel they are defending their honor it will continue. Lately we have seen a lot of offensive comments in a lot of threads, including offensive comments from a CO. I believe a CO should be puting out fires, not throwing more fuel on them. I would much rather see a CO lock a thread without public comment. If the CO feels they have something that must be said, say it in a PM to person who's causing the thread to locked. "Not appropriate, closed" in the public thread works fine for me. Knock down dragged out offensive comments and swearing accomplish nothing except to lower everyone's respect for those involved. If someone feels a CO is not doing the job right, report the CO and let management decide.
Even with different opinions there's no need to resort to the kind of threads we've seen lately. I'm losing count of how many threads have been locked; and all locked way, way too late IMHO.
In the end, it's treating others and you would want to be treated. Perhaps all that is needed is for more of us to speak up when things are starting to get out of hand. Never-the-less a fair-handed CO may be needed sooner rather than later to step in.
I believe the less rules the better.
I understand where Ken is coming from, religion and politics are two topics that always bring out 'line in sand' attitudes and often hurt feelings. Still, I'd like to think the majority of the members are adult enough to post comments without making them offensive. If not close the thread!
There have been some really mean spirited comments made and they have no place in car club. As long as either side is looking for a fight or feel they are defending their honor it will continue. Lately we have seen a lot of offensive comments in a lot of threads, including offensive comments from a CO. I believe a CO should be puting out fires, not throwing more fuel on them. I would much rather see a CO lock a thread without public comment. If the CO feels they have something that must be said, say it in a PM to person who's causing the thread to locked. "Not appropriate, closed" in the public thread works fine for me. Knock down dragged out offensive comments and swearing accomplish nothing except to lower everyone's respect for those involved. If someone feels a CO is not doing the job right, report the CO and let management decide.
Even with different opinions there's no need to resort to the kind of threads we've seen lately. I'm losing count of how many threads have been locked; and all locked way, way too late IMHO.
In the end, it's treating others and you would want to be treated. Perhaps all that is needed is for more of us to speak up when things are starting to get out of hand. Never-the-less a fair-handed CO may be needed sooner rather than later to step in.