Dave,

My point about Acura bringing back the Integra wasn't because I thought it was a great car. I was always neutral about it. My point was that I think Honda/Acura realized the mistake that they made in eliminating all of the reasonably sporty cars in their lineup. In reality, for the last number of years, since they discontinued the RSX there was no reason for a young person to go into an Acura showroom. They've done very well with the MDX but that's always been a "soccer mom's" car. The ILX was really nothing more than an overpriced Civic Si, rebadged and with less driving fun. The rest of their Acura line has been old and tired for a number of years. The NSX which they thought would be their "Halo" car didn't live up to the expectations of the original one, and how far can you go with a car that sells only 150 units a year. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the new NSX but it didn't blow the market away like the original one did in the 1990s.

The reintroduction of the Integra along with the Civic Type R, a newly updated Civic Si and perhaps a new emphasis on performance might put Honda back on track. If they do introduce a new version of the S2000 (or whatever they'll call it) I think it'll say a lot for them. There are lots of rumors swirling around about this.

 

Rob, I agree. Honda has become just another auto manufacturer. Perhaps we expect too much but when you look at history and how they captured the small motorcycle market, the small import car market, the excitement they made on tracks around the world right up to the top formula one, and on... its sad to see more excitement about what Kia (just an example) is coming out with next. Here is a quote from 13 years ago that sums up their so-called returns to their roots, "As the global financial storm raged in the fall of 2008, Honda Motor Co. faced wrenching decisions. It chose to put plans for a new factory on ice, cancel Acura's debut in Japan, kill the NSX sports car and drop out of Formula One racing. And the company cut thousands of jobs at home and abroad. In short, Honda returned to its roots. It trimmed extras and relied on its long-standing less-is-more corporate philosophy." I don't think much has changed.

Another quote from a year later, "Some critics complain that in its frugality, Honda has abandoned flashy models such as the S2000 roadster. The CR-Z, a new sporty hybrid due out in 2010, may appease enthusiasts, but Ito says he won't add zippier cars unless they are environmentally sound. "We want to offer consumers fun-to-drive vehicles," he says. "But gas-guzzlers are not something we want to do." It is now well over 10 years later...

 

Dave,
if you look at most companies, they have periods of excellence and mediocrity, sometimes worse.
Adapting and understanding is terribly difficult. Almost any leadership struggles with insularity and isolation.
It is very easy to be surrounded by sycophant's and suck-ups. Their position also isolates them from their real customers, the consumers, stockholders.
It's a delicate balancing act between returning value to the shareholders and re-investing into future products.
It also take the visionary who can see where the market is headed and timing is important.
When Honda dumped F1 in 2008 it had the right idea, but perhaps poor timing. I think they saw the trend but the tech wasn't quite there yet.

 

Damn Jerry, you are an engineer and a damn good one I suspect. You do see the big picture and I do appreciate your insight. That's why I am stuck in the past!

 

i'm a lazy wannabe CEO. I studied leadership while I was pursuing my MBA. but like Harry Chapin said the lessons didn't go very far.
I did like understanding the leadership part and innovation. I just didn't have the patience for management I enjoyed the creative process too much.
So what I am I doing now? Management.
I still go for the firefights and disasters. much more exciting. I like being put on lost causes where miracles are needed.
Get that good superstar vibe going. I can walk on mater but only in January and February. Never let them see the strings.

 

Jerry, you are one of the special people on this site even if you must insist on driving 3-star cars (you know Crysullers made in Germany)

 

I tend to agree, but I see it a little differently. I think a little success is great for a company, but a lot of success is terrible. With a little success a company sees a bright future and strives for more. With a lot of success companies tend to fall asleep and rest on their laurels. Think of all of those companies who dominated their markets like IBM, Sony, General Motors, Honda motorcycles, Sears, K-Mart & etc. Think about how they all fell asleep. And there are many, many more.

The only company that was overly successful and dominated the market that I can think of is Toyota.

 

Yep. Toyota seems to actually listen to customers as well. They allow sales of the big movers to cover up for the slower sales/less margin cars. Smart plan.

Honda made an attempt in the late 80's with Acura, but they either couldn't keep up with Toyota/Lexus, or chose not to. Poor plan on their part and I don't see a way of them overcoming it now.

If the 2022/23 Integra is basically a rebadged ILX sedan it won't bring in any new buyers. Honda should have a coupe in their lineup, not having one is just dumb.

 

One part of the auto industry that I have found 'interesting' is floor-planning.
The average consumer thinks you go in and get the car you want and the dealer orders another like it.
In reality they buy blocks of cars. In order to get the fast mover, they get some dogs thrown into the mix.
So for every Camry or gr-86 they get an avalon or another dog.
I remember Mazda bundling the 929 with miata's. Miata's were selling like hotcakes and you could get 929's 5k below list.

 

One of the big problems that Honda had, and especially with it's Acura line, is that it hasn't understood the market for a long time. Over the last decade or two they have introduced models intended for specific markets without the understanding of what that market wanted or needed. For example, the Element was introduced as a car for college students. The only market that the Element found was senior citizens. Look at the CR-Z it could've and should've been a great, big seller. Had they put the Si engine in it they'd have sold a gazillion cars, but because they thought the market wanted a hybrid with a manual transmission (or optional automatic) the car was underpowered and fell on its face. They failed to understand that the people who buy cars like the CR-Z want performance.

Part of the problem is that their marketing department simply doesn't understand the market. An additional problem is that there is a conflict between Honda America and Honda Japan (corporate). Neither really understands the market, but Japan dictates what Honda America can produce and sell.