Pretty well put, valentine. But, unlike you, I think the Pledge is designed to help people forget those details, by substituting simple allegiance for a thoughtful concern for freedom.

Unfortunately, the freedom to speak out is under fire from pretty much every direction. Under the Patriot Act, people are being targeted and investigated based on the content of emails, or postings such as this one, not deeds. We're already a fair ways down that slippery slope - first the FCC bans speech that it deems unacceptable from a language standpoint, then a city tells a bar owner what he can and cannot put on the walls of his own establishment (he had some signs with some expletives, and none of his patrons had complained), then universities ban any speech that anyone finds offensive (the speech codes in effect in many universities are particularly egregious violations), then the FBI targets for investigation anyone who disagrees with the administration's policies (many anti-war protesters have been intimidated and harrassed by federal agents, especially since the Iraq war started), and now the US has deported people for their expressed opinions, without charging them with any crimes.

Here's an excellent summary by Rep. Ron Paul made to the US. House of Representatives this past March:

http://www.counterpunch.org/paul03182004.html

Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox for now. I'm frequently depressed by the things I read on forums such as this, where people see nothing wrong in attacking some of the most fundamental freedoms that we enjoy (this is not directed at you, valentine). I just believe that institutions like the Pledge have done their part in creating a society where "My Country, Right or Wrong" (often interpreted as "My Country Can Do No Wrong") expresses the viewpoint of a large percentage. I think that's a very dangerous trend.

JonasM

 

Jonas, for caring enough about our freedoms to read/stay informed. I, too, become quite concerned about the infringement of big government on human rights and freedoms. It does not, however, make me a sheep to meaningfully recite the Pledge of Allegiance. I am an American and proud of my country -- I do not, however, blindly follow every whim of the government. I make every attempt to right what I think is wrong and to inform my representatives when I think they're out of line (particularly when it comes to the possibility of the formation of a police-state). Every member of my city council knows my name (and some wish they didn't ). I am filled with national pride and take comfort in pledging support to my country. It has always been and I hope will always be the right of those who do not wish to recite the Pledge, the right to not do so. Whether we agree or not with the direction the government takes, fortunately, we have the voice to complain about it and will not be shot down in the streets for having differing opinions. We as a nation of people with many different ideas and ideals, need to have common respect for the rights of everyone. I come from a long, long line of democrats (conservative democrats, but . . .) and worked in social services for many, many years. Social programs and social reform has long been important to me and the plight of the downtrodden has been my concern. If you really want me to get on a soapbox, then we'll chat about the total invasion of privacy those people who receive public assistance have to deal with!!!! Please, let's not go there now or ever!!! Thanks for some very intellectually stimulating posts!!! That's what makes Vintage great.

 

Just my personal opinion, but I have no respect for the political opinions of those who would reject a pledge to our country. It is so easy to sit back and enjoy the benefits of being an American and not take any responsibility for it's direction or its character, especially when you do not agree with where we are or where we are heading. I'm sure the loss of my respect will be meaningless to those who don't pledge to anything, or think the pledge is "scary." If you do not even want to pledge your allegiance to this country, I know my opinion is of no consequence.

Sadly, at a time when the rest of the world is feverishly pledging it's allegiance to the destruction of this country, many of our own are distancing themselves and avoiding the kind of loyalty to a way of life that is critical to its survival.

Feel free to flame away in response. I'll consider each one a badge of honor.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Legal Bill
Just my personal opinion, but I have no respect for the political opinions of those who would reject a pledge to our country. [QUOTE]

Wow. IMO not supporting a rote reading of a pledge in a classroom hardly constitutes being anti-American.

LB - I think you had better turn off Fox News once in a while.

 

edit: here's my flame (not really)

The sentiment in the sentence above expressed by LB, I have heard repeated many times by many people. To me it's just one of those easy phrases to throw out, but it doesn't mean much.

I could list why I think I am a good US citizen. But when you express such a sentiment as above, exactly what is it that you think people should be doing?

As for the pledge, I still say, we all repeated it day in and day out at school. Doesn't mean a thing to say the words, it is the actions of a person that defines them.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lig
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Legal Bill
Just my personal opinion, but I have no respect for the political opinions of those who would reject a pledge to our country. This quote is a good example of how a smiley doesn't really change an insult.

The subject of this thread has gone quite far from reciting a pledge in the class room and has comments about the rejection of taking a pledge without regard to how it is worded. I just want to make sure the context of my post is understood. I'm not trying to change your mind.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Smokee

 

Please remember - no flaming allowed. So far this thread has gone pretty well. I want to keep it that way. Thanks...

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Legal Bill

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Legal Bill