This may date me a little, but in light of some recent discourse in the Political Forum, some of you may find it interesting.
Back in 1970 when I was a young chickie out seeking employment, I was taught in business school to show up for interviews wearing white gloves and a business suit (jacket, blouse and skirt [stockings were a must as were dressy shoes, preferably high heels] -- slacks were not allowed) (we no longer needed to wear hats).
Typical questions: Are you married? Are you engaged? If you answered yes to the marriage question, the next question: Are you planning to become pregnant? If the answer to that was yes, then you just plain were escorted out the door because (a) they didn't want you out on maternity leave and (b) if you had a baby, you needed to stay home and rear it.
If you answered the "engaged" question affirmatively, then the next question was: when are going to get married . . . which led to the pregnancy, etc. line of questioning.
Also, we were expected to take positions that offered two payscales: A higher payscale if you were a male applying for the same position and the secondary lower payscale if you were female since obviously you would be soon getting engaged, married, and leaving to raise your babies.
IF you were successful in obtaining employment, typically the boss was a male who by virtue of his fine maleness was permitted to touch you when you didn't want to be touched, lear at you and make sexist jokes. You had NO RIGHTS, could not complain or . . . you were shown the door with your last paycheck in hand.
These are only a few of the indignities suffered by the women of the 70s. No matter what our title may have been or level of education (not to mention higher intellect), we were still expected to make the coffee in the morning, serve it up to the males if they asked for it and act like "ladies".
I make no apologies for behaving the way I wish anymore and if you'd like to open a door for me, please feel free, fellas. I've earned it. Oh, and I also expect you to treat me with respect. I've been "around the bend" several times, fought for my rights as an INDIVIDUAL, earned high level positions with employers and treated EVERYONE that worked with or for me with respect and whatever dignity they deserved.
As to you ladies out there in my age range. I'm sure you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Discussion anyone?

 

Oh and I forgot to mention, most of the fellas around here (where I live) wish the "good ole days" were still around.

 

Great post, Val.

Things were not quite so formal in our area,when I was looking for a job, however, in the business classes I took at my local Catholic high school, we were told how important appearance was at an interview. I still think it's(appearance) important, on the job, even at the more casual places. You can be casual and not look like a slob. And as far as looking professional, FWIT, I'm not impressed when I see the teller at the bank showing her cleavage.

At our school, we had college courses and business courses. The ladies taking college courses were pretty much expected to become teachers, or nurses, you know, girl type of careers.

Back in the day, I worked in a bank. Most of the employees were women. Health insurance was offered to all, for free, but, oh, by the way, don't get pregnant, we don't cover pregnancy. One of the loan officers was a woman. Not common back then. Most people assumed she slept her way to that position (no pun intended) and that she was a biatch. I liked her, and when I processed the loans for her, I had no problem dealing with her.

Thankfully, young women are no longer delegated to the clerical jobs, or the "girl" type of careers. My granddaughter can choose whatever career that interests her, and my bet is that she won't have to fetch coffee for anyone except herself.

 

[QUOTE=valentine,Jan 9 2008, 11:47 AM] Oh and I forgot to mention, most of the fellas around here wish the "good ole days" were still around.

 

I'll second the great post Val And from another decade younger... I began looking for work out of high school in 1984. Things seemed better at the time but looking back it was still very much a man's world.

I never had a female boss until late 90's, I know I made less than males in a similar line of work and I always felt that I had to either A) be a girl and have people like me OR B) be better than the men I worked with to get any respect.

I worked in a truck dealership as my first real job. I was a secretary... it was called something different but I answered the phones, took messages, ordered office supplies, etc. The only other woman I worked with DID make coffee for the sales people and company owner.

I was very lucky in that my boss was a nice youngish man who took notice of the fact that I liked vehicles and was interested in learning more. I started working with him to learn to process warranty claims and even covered as service manager for a few days - it was a thrill for a 21 year old

I moved towards the tech industry because I truly was interested in it (star trek at 10) but I think in large part because it was a "male only" career 15 years ago. Even so - guess where I started - answering phones at the help desk and taking messages - bleck!

Will we ever have a truly equal society? Even now it's not socially acceptable for a woman to hit the bars alone. I'm sure I could think of other instances if I try. The pay scale is STILL not equal no matter what anyone says.

Anyone else have a comment?

 

Observations from the factory floor.

In 1967 I went to work in an aircraft factory. There were women in a variety of production jobs. A factory job usually has a paygrade assigned to the job depending on difficulty.

In the mid '70s, I started seeing women apprentices in all of the skilled trades. I started getting female apprentice electricians to work with me for on the job training. Most were competent, but some were not and sued the company to graduate from apprenticeship. Those are the ones that would be dangerous later.

Some women had limitations in the pipefitter and millwright trades because of strength. Other trades seemed to be no problem.

In general, women were more desirable in the trades than the production worker that bid on the apprenticeship because he wanted an "easier" job that paid more money.

 

+1 still laughs about the time in 1972 when she was told she would not be given a job because she was going to leave soon to have babies. Well, here it is, 36 years later and still no babies.
I've worked for both male and female supervisors and can honestly say, the differences are based on personlaity, not gender.

 

Not me, I like being a "kept" man.

 

Sounds like us factory rats are more progressive than the rest of the world. Pay rates are determined by job description. The aircraft factory and just about every place I have worked have had female production supervisors. Only a few women have been on supervision in skilled trades.

Factories are so progressive that it has gotten to the point of reverse discrimination. About 6 or 8 years ago, a friend was graduating fron Georgia Tech with a master's degree in mechanical engineering. Since our Maintenance Manager at Ford also had a degree in mechanical engineering, I asked him what Lucas needed to do to get started in the automotive industry. His immediate response was,"Rub down with silver nitrate and get a sex change."

 

Ellen, your post is interesting and enlightening. I had the feeling we'd progressed a little further than we have. I can recall with great clarity the "good ole boys" referring to the women who wanted to use their education and ability as those "beyatches". For about the last 15 or so years of my career I was called QB behind my back, but I reveled in it and considered getting identiplates for my car with QB #1 on them (and I would have proudly parked in my reserved spot to show off those plates). (if you cannot figure out what QB stands for, pm me and I'll clue you in). I still see gender discrimination here. Thankfully it is not as rampant as it once was and thankfully there are protocols in place to protect oneself from some of the gross behavior of yesteryear (and yesteryear was NOT all that long ago).