1st Gen MS3 or Mk7 GTI?
05-16-2018, 06:29 AM
#1
1st Gen MS3 or Mk7 GTI?
I'm exploring a new daily driver. I owned a 2014 stage 3 Focus ST and sold it a year and half ago due to a new home purchase. Now, I'm in the market for a new hot hatch as a daily. For several months, I've been looking into a Mk7 GTI, but I recently found a first gen MS3 with only 28,000 miles for $11,500. Would you still go for the Mk7 GTI or save the $10k and go for the MS3? I'd have to drive 3 hours to even see the MS3, so it's not as easy for me to test drive it and inspect it. The seller (2nd owner) claims that he has all of the maintenance records. I'm still working on trying to get additional pictures, but he hasn't been very responsive. Thanks for your thoughts and feedback.
Here's the ad for the MS3: https://albuquerque.craigslist.org/c...582911741.html
Here's the ad for the MS3: https://albuquerque.craigslist.org/c...582911741.html
05-16-2018, 06:44 AM
#2
Wait a couple months and get a really good deal on a GTI. If you can live without the sunroof, larger touchscreen, bigger brakes and diff, you can buy the S model for $20k (manual or $21k auto) when dealers start dealing. It has been reported on the "How much did you pay" thread on VW Vortex that that is not an uncommon price when you get past peak summer sale time. You will now get a 6/72 bumper to bumper warranty, and a newer, higher tech, safer, more efficient car.
I would, just for the sake of argument, add a couple to a few grand to the price of the MS3 for things that will need to be replaced in the time you own it (tires, brakes, other things that have aged and might fail) that will not need to be replaced on the Golf. If this MS3 is $11,500 with 28,000 miles on it, unless it has new tires, you should pony up $600 at least for decent tires right off the bat.
If you bought both and drove them for 5 years and put 60,000 miles on them, one would be worth $10k used and have one year left on the warranty and be easier to sell. The other would now be a 16 year old car worth a couple grand and maybe have had a bunch of repairs in the mean time. If the depreciation curve is going to be about the same and you will lose $9-10 k in value over the next five years, take the new car with the warranty.
If I loved the MS3 and the price was $8k I might have a different answer. But it is an 11 year old car at this point. Electrics, gaskets and rubber parts can become an issue. Especially gaskets and seals on a car that has not been driven much.
I would, just for the sake of argument, add a couple to a few grand to the price of the MS3 for things that will need to be replaced in the time you own it (tires, brakes, other things that have aged and might fail) that will not need to be replaced on the Golf. If this MS3 is $11,500 with 28,000 miles on it, unless it has new tires, you should pony up $600 at least for decent tires right off the bat.
If you bought both and drove them for 5 years and put 60,000 miles on them, one would be worth $10k used and have one year left on the warranty and be easier to sell. The other would now be a 16 year old car worth a couple grand and maybe have had a bunch of repairs in the mean time. If the depreciation curve is going to be about the same and you will lose $9-10 k in value over the next five years, take the new car with the warranty.
If I loved the MS3 and the price was $8k I might have a different answer. But it is an 11 year old car at this point. Electrics, gaskets and rubber parts can become an issue. Especially gaskets and seals on a car that has not been driven much.
Last edited by vader1; 05-16-2018 at 06:53 AM.
05-16-2018, 07:02 AM
#3
Join Date: Mar 2017
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SO. I've been on the DISI 2.3L platform for about 8 years at this point (jesus). Owned everything from stock to built 600whp versions. Currently have a 06 Speed6 that is fairly modified for street use only.
Anyway.
They are extremely fun vehicles. Gobs of torque, very easy to modify and very reliable when taken care of. When looking at one of these cars there are several components you will NEED to check on a first gen vehicle:
1. VVT/Timing chain recall has been performed. The first VVT actuator was prone to failure; the chain also would stretch over time which can cause the vehicle to skip timing. The tell tale sign of this is the chain slapping the valve cover on cold starts. It's pretty easy to hear it (only happens on a legit cold start though). This part has gone through 3 revisions and was totally fixed by 2010 model year.
2. Compression. The first gen DISI's tend to lose compression in Cyl. 3 due to the intake manifold design (cyl. 3 runs leaner than the others) and the piston design of the 06-09 DISI motor. These issues were also resolved in 2010-2013 model years. Compression check is very easy. Just want to make sure they run even across the board (or within 5% of each other). This should be done on any of these DISI's regardless of MY really just to check.
3. Turbo seals. The K04 on these vehicles is known to start smoking at some point. The swap is fairly easy if you're mechanically inclined (I can do it in about 2 hours now). Remove the intercooler to check for excessive oil in the charge piping. A little is normal.
Other than that it's just a normal car.
If you want a more raw experience go for a Gen1 (07-09). For a little bit nicer interior, less to worry about and up to date go for Gen2 (2010-2013). They're extremely cheap currently and still a pretty large community of people that are very helpful.
I personally am a DISI snob now and wouldn't accept anything less than a GT, which on the first Gens gets your HID lights and LED tail lights. The nav is worthless on all models so i'd avoid that.
PM me or post here with any other questions. It's obvious what I would recommend, as these cars are much faster, easier to work on, and more raw than the GTi's save the latest generation.
Anyway.
They are extremely fun vehicles. Gobs of torque, very easy to modify and very reliable when taken care of. When looking at one of these cars there are several components you will NEED to check on a first gen vehicle:
1. VVT/Timing chain recall has been performed. The first VVT actuator was prone to failure; the chain also would stretch over time which can cause the vehicle to skip timing. The tell tale sign of this is the chain slapping the valve cover on cold starts. It's pretty easy to hear it (only happens on a legit cold start though). This part has gone through 3 revisions and was totally fixed by 2010 model year.
2. Compression. The first gen DISI's tend to lose compression in Cyl. 3 due to the intake manifold design (cyl. 3 runs leaner than the others) and the piston design of the 06-09 DISI motor. These issues were also resolved in 2010-2013 model years. Compression check is very easy. Just want to make sure they run even across the board (or within 5% of each other). This should be done on any of these DISI's regardless of MY really just to check.
3. Turbo seals. The K04 on these vehicles is known to start smoking at some point. The swap is fairly easy if you're mechanically inclined (I can do it in about 2 hours now). Remove the intercooler to check for excessive oil in the charge piping. A little is normal.
Other than that it's just a normal car.
If you want a more raw experience go for a Gen1 (07-09). For a little bit nicer interior, less to worry about and up to date go for Gen2 (2010-2013). They're extremely cheap currently and still a pretty large community of people that are very helpful.
I personally am a DISI snob now and wouldn't accept anything less than a GT, which on the first Gens gets your HID lights and LED tail lights. The nav is worthless on all models so i'd avoid that.
PM me or post here with any other questions. It's obvious what I would recommend, as these cars are much faster, easier to work on, and more raw than the GTi's save the latest generation.
05-16-2018, 07:15 AM
#4
I appreciate the feedback from both of you, and you both make very valid points. I do like the factor that the 1st gen MS3 has more of a raw experience; however, with this being a lot more like a daily driver, I probably would lean towards a balance between refinement and fun factor. I think it would make me appreciate the S2K even more if I reserved the raw sports car experience for the S.
vader1, you make a lot of good points logistically and financially, which I definitely need to take into account. Your perspective is something I didn't consider in-depth at this point, but now I see the importance in considering the factors you mentioned. I definitely would want to have a GTI with the LSD (I think it's electronic now and not mechanical?). So I'm assuming my first trim level to shoot for is an SE.
vader1, you make a lot of good points logistically and financially, which I definitely need to take into account. Your perspective is something I didn't consider in-depth at this point, but now I see the importance in considering the factors you mentioned. I definitely would want to have a GTI with the LSD (I think it's electronic now and not mechanical?). So I'm assuming my first trim level to shoot for is an SE.
05-16-2018, 07:17 AM
#5
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Waterford, MI - America's High Five
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I appreciate the feedback from both of you, and you both make very valid points. I do like the factor that the 1st gen MS3 has more of a raw experience; however, with this being a lot more like a daily driver, I probably would lean towards a balance between refinement and fun factor. I think it would make me appreciate the S2K even more if I reserved the raw sports car experience for the S.
vader1, you make a lot of good points logistically and financially, which I definitely need to take into account. Your perspective is something I didn't consider in-depth at this point, but now I see the importance in considering the factors you mentioned. I definitely would want to have a GTI with the LSD (I think it's electronic now and not mechanical?). So I'm assuming my first trim level to shoot for is an SE.
vader1, you make a lot of good points logistically and financially, which I definitely need to take into account. Your perspective is something I didn't consider in-depth at this point, but now I see the importance in considering the factors you mentioned. I definitely would want to have a GTI with the LSD (I think it's electronic now and not mechanical?). So I'm assuming my first trim level to shoot for is an SE.
Financial sense = GTi.
All the Mazdaspeeds have plummeted in value and will continue to do so unfortunately. All depends what you want.
GL!
05-16-2018, 07:31 AM
#6
if its a DD, Gti. you couldn't pay me to be stuck in an MS3 everyday. The interior is pretty bad.
I have 11k miles in 5 months on my mk7 gti and love it. The new tech is great. Android auto has Waze.
I have 11k miles in 5 months on my mk7 gti and love it. The new tech is great. Android auto has Waze.
05-16-2018, 07:47 AM
#7
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I just picked up a 07 MS3 as my new daily, and I love it. I won't go into all the post details, since all the great points of the MS3 have already been discussed in detail already.
I bought it from an older guy who took liked modding cars, but also took care of his stuff. It makes 300whp, and it's a BLAST to drive.
I realize that 28k miles is super rare, but I picked mine up for half that price with 120k miles. I don't think it's worth $11k.
I bought it from an older guy who took liked modding cars, but also took care of his stuff. It makes 300whp, and it's a BLAST to drive.
I realize that 28k miles is super rare, but I picked mine up for half that price with 120k miles. I don't think it's worth $11k.
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AP1 and AP2 Clear Headlight Diffusers!!! - Clear out your S2000 headlights!
LED Conversions for all S2000 lights
Keyhole Covers - Get the Shaved look
Oil Drain Valve - Easiest Oil Change ever!
_________
For LEDs for your other cars, head to our new website: SupernovaLEDs.com. Same great quality, easy-to-use website. Pick your car, we'll show you what fits.
Last edited by JS2k.com; 05-16-2018 at 07:50 AM.
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HawkeyeGeoff (05-16-2018)
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05-16-2018, 07:48 AM
#8
Sponsor
My first mod for the MS3 was a 9" Android touchscreen head unit. No complaints anymore about the interior.
__________________
AP1 and AP2 Clear Headlight Diffusers!!! - Clear out your S2000 headlights!
LED Conversions for all S2000 lights
Keyhole Covers - Get the Shaved look
Oil Drain Valve - Easiest Oil Change ever!
_________
For LEDs for your other cars, head to our new website: SupernovaLEDs.com. Same great quality, easy-to-use website. Pick your car, we'll show you what fits.
AP1 and AP2 Clear Headlight Diffusers!!! - Clear out your S2000 headlights!
LED Conversions for all S2000 lights
Keyhole Covers - Get the Shaved look
Oil Drain Valve - Easiest Oil Change ever!
_________
For LEDs for your other cars, head to our new website: SupernovaLEDs.com. Same great quality, easy-to-use website. Pick your car, we'll show you what fits.
The following users liked this post:
HawkeyeGeoff (05-16-2018)
05-16-2018, 07:52 AM
#9
A lot of good points here. I had an ‘08 MS3 Grand Touring about 6 years ago. Really loved the car. Sold it because I was living downtown at the time and needed something more utilitarian for motorcycle racing.
Even with the low miles, they’re asking way too much. It’s a plain interior, don’t care for silver, and they’re just not holding their values as previously mentioned. It’d have to be in the $6k -7k range for me to bite.
Personally I’m not a VW fan, and I’m German. The Golfs just don’t do it for me. Why not pickup another ST? Is it just because you’ve been there, done that? If so, I get it.
Even with the low miles, they’re asking way too much. It’s a plain interior, don’t care for silver, and they’re just not holding their values as previously mentioned. It’d have to be in the $6k -7k range for me to bite.
Personally I’m not a VW fan, and I’m German. The Golfs just don’t do it for me. Why not pickup another ST? Is it just because you’ve been there, done that? If so, I get it.
The following users liked this post:
HawkeyeGeoff (05-16-2018)
05-16-2018, 07:59 AM
#10
A lot of good points here. I had an ‘08 MS3 Grand Touring about 6 years ago. Really loved the car. Sold it because I was living downtown at the time and needed something more utilitarian for motorcycle racing.
Even with the low miles, they’re asking way too much. It’s a plain interior, don’t care for silver, and they’re just not holding their values as previously mentioned. It’d have to be in the $6k -7k range for me to bite.
Personally I’m not a VW fan, and I’m German. The Golfs just don’t do it for me. Why not pickup another ST? Is it just because you’ve been there, done that? If so, I get it.
Even with the low miles, they’re asking way too much. It’s a plain interior, don’t care for silver, and they’re just not holding their values as previously mentioned. It’d have to be in the $6k -7k range for me to bite.
Personally I’m not a VW fan, and I’m German. The Golfs just don’t do it for me. Why not pickup another ST? Is it just because you’ve been there, done that? If so, I get it.
With what I was researching, it seemed that a similar amount of money I spent on modding the ST would give me even more gains with the GTI. Another aspect is I'm not so sure if I want to be associated with the ST crowd anymore. When I parted out the car and sold everything, I wasn't too fond of the folks that were buying the parts. But I know, every enthusiast car has a "crowd," and not every ST owner is a part of that crowd.