Really Frustrating Site Access Problems - Anyone else similar?
11-27-2002, 05:43 AM
#21
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Pete
without drawing ourselves into an argument. Think about these points:
1. Who do you imagine `owns` the internet?
.....answer many people
2. Who do you think manages this owned infrastructure?
.....answer everybody
3. Who guarentees delivery of service?
...answer....no one
There are issues with the backbone infrastructure and the delivery of service is not guarenteed. The .net has grown, it wasn`t planned and installed by a single company who has sole ownership - its an evolution of technologies and hardware.
Until one person is responsible for it (heaven forbid that to happen). Nobody will be individually accountable. As such we HAVE to accept there maybe outage.
Assume you are trying to get a connection to playboy.com and it doesn`t work, assume the response from playboy.com was `its ok here, assume you then contact your ISP and they say, its ok here - who do you complain to? You don`t.....because you can`t....there is no one...so you `deal with it`. This isn`t a car you`ve bought from Toyota, this is a net connection of which your ISP is a tiny little bit in the chain.
This is an important point that needs to be made it has to be understood that on such an environment we will have to deal with such things.
I did make this comment at the bottom though:
`This is unless it can be proven that S2ki`s servers are not upto the job, by some stringent throughput testing.`
without drawing ourselves into an argument. Think about these points:
1. Who do you imagine `owns` the internet?
.....answer many people
2. Who do you think manages this owned infrastructure?
.....answer everybody
3. Who guarentees delivery of service?
...answer....no one
There are issues with the backbone infrastructure and the delivery of service is not guarenteed. The .net has grown, it wasn`t planned and installed by a single company who has sole ownership - its an evolution of technologies and hardware.
Until one person is responsible for it (heaven forbid that to happen). Nobody will be individually accountable. As such we HAVE to accept there maybe outage.
Assume you are trying to get a connection to playboy.com and it doesn`t work, assume the response from playboy.com was `its ok here, assume you then contact your ISP and they say, its ok here - who do you complain to? You don`t.....because you can`t....there is no one...so you `deal with it`. This isn`t a car you`ve bought from Toyota, this is a net connection of which your ISP is a tiny little bit in the chain.
This is an important point that needs to be made it has to be understood that on such an environment we will have to deal with such things.
I did make this comment at the bottom though:
`This is unless it can be proven that S2ki`s servers are not upto the job, by some stringent throughput testing.`
11-27-2002, 05:51 AM
#22
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Originally posted by Mark Turner
Probably a fair starting question with you though!
My firm's IT people are, by and large, hopeless. If you phone up the Helpdesk, most of the operators seem to become stumped very rapidly if rebooting doesn't solve the problem........
Probably a fair starting question with you though!
My firm's IT people are, by and large, hopeless. If you phone up the Helpdesk, most of the operators seem to become stumped very rapidly if rebooting doesn't solve the problem........
I'll have you know i can "ctrl/Alt/Del" with the best of em 
Anyway the IT bods at work have learnt the hard way that i do kinda know what i'm doing and that everything has to be plugged in before i call them.....
11-27-2002, 05:56 AM
#23
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Originally posted by cheshire_carper
Assume you are trying to get a connection to playboy.com and it doesn`t work,
Assume you are trying to get a connection to playboy.com and it doesn`t work,
11-27-2002, 06:04 AM
#24
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Assume you are trying to get a connection to playboy.com and it doesn`t work.....
Without sounding a complete muppet, and please reply in "Manc" and not techy language - but if one site doesn't "work" wouldn't it be normal to assume it was a site problem? (Not that i'm saying it is in this case).
In which case, why (after S2ki has "died on me" when i go on google and click on the S2000 international that the search found - it works - when the S2ki.co.uk thing doesn't?
11-27-2002, 06:12 AM
#25
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You are right Jenny, it would be correct to assume the site is pooh poohed, hence my comment. But if the site owners do not take responsibility or acceptance, then you truly are pretty stuffed.
The point I`m making though is take your company for example, if the IT bods were worth their salt, any issues you have is their responsibility and resolvable by them. The net is not like that.
The point I`m making though is take your company for example, if the IT bods were worth their salt, any issues you have is their responsibility and resolvable by them. The net is not like that.
11-27-2002, 06:14 AM
#26
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Colin, there isn't any basis for an argument, so we won't have one 
Every single thing you say in your post is well known to me.
My point was simply that if 99 sites can be accessed without any problem and one can't, then it's reasonable to assume, as a initial basis for fault-finding, that the problem might well lie with that one site and not with the infrastructure. That's all. And, indeed, that turns out to be the case.
When Sainsbury's were switching from 'Reward' to 'Nectar', in the early stages they were encouraging people to register with Nectar on-line. It was impossible. I told them so a few days later and was told, "It's not Nectar, it's the Internet; there are a lot of problems with the internet in America; lots of sites are having the same problem." I wanted to say, "Well, on the basis that I have no problems with any other sites, my guess is that the reason it doesn't work is probably because you have totally underestimated the demand and the thing just can't cope," but I couldn't be bothered.
I'm constantly amazed that the Net works as well as it does, but it's precisely because it does work so well (most of the time) that if just one site appears FUBAR, I suspect the site to be at fault rather than the Net (like our own server that went down for 30 minutes yesterday - and it's just gone down again
)
Pete
PS
Our techie director says that there has been been a concerted attack on Teledata House in London in the last 24 hours and BT in particular are experiencing problems. However, he says this is just slowing things down in general in certain areas, not putting whole sites out of reach.
Every single thing you say in your post is well known to me.
My point was simply that if 99 sites can be accessed without any problem and one can't, then it's reasonable to assume, as a initial basis for fault-finding, that the problem might well lie with that one site and not with the infrastructure. That's all. And, indeed, that turns out to be the case.
When Sainsbury's were switching from 'Reward' to 'Nectar', in the early stages they were encouraging people to register with Nectar on-line. It was impossible. I told them so a few days later and was told, "It's not Nectar, it's the Internet; there are a lot of problems with the internet in America; lots of sites are having the same problem." I wanted to say, "Well, on the basis that I have no problems with any other sites, my guess is that the reason it doesn't work is probably because you have totally underestimated the demand and the thing just can't cope," but I couldn't be bothered.
I'm constantly amazed that the Net works as well as it does, but it's precisely because it does work so well (most of the time) that if just one site appears FUBAR, I suspect the site to be at fault rather than the Net (like our own server that went down for 30 minutes yesterday - and it's just gone down again
) Pete
PS
Our techie director says that there has been been a concerted attack on Teledata House in London in the last 24 hours and BT in particular are experiencing problems. However, he says this is just slowing things down in general in certain areas, not putting whole sites out of reach.
11-27-2002, 06:18 AM
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You're soooo going to wish you hadn't replied to this thread Col.
So its kinda like the universe, people use its space but no one actually owns it, therefore no one to blame when the sky falls in.
Hmmmmm interesting stuff.
You still didn't explain why S2000 Int worked thru Google though?
So its kinda like the universe, people use its space but no one actually owns it, therefore no one to blame when the sky falls in.
Hmmmmm interesting stuff.
You still didn't explain why S2000 Int worked thru Google though?
11-27-2002, 06:25 AM
#28
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Pete
exactly right.
The fact that the kit that strings it together is generally so resilient and the protocol that runs above so tolerant that the net does work at all.
I`ve been into the comms game for over 14 years and it still amazes me at times. The routes data takes in order to hit a destination and the rate at which it does is nothing short of stunning. New emerging technologies for backbone infrastructures are quite shocking.
Jenny,
in essence you`re right, I find the whole comms thing better than sex at times. Not better than fishing though......
exactly right.
The fact that the kit that strings it together is generally so resilient and the protocol that runs above so tolerant that the net does work at all.
I`ve been into the comms game for over 14 years and it still amazes me at times. The routes data takes in order to hit a destination and the rate at which it does is nothing short of stunning. New emerging technologies for backbone infrastructures are quite shocking.
Jenny,
in essence you`re right, I find the whole comms thing better than sex at times. Not better than fishing though......
