I think you're assuming malicious intent behind what are justifiable and well-intentioned actions by the mod, CKit. Conspiracy theories like this one are a big part of the reason why I quit as Racing and Competition's moderator a few months ago.

Any subforum of Racing and Competition would be CKit's "turf" as well, so no.

Really? There are five STR-related threads on the front page of R&C as I type this, one started by the moderator himself. The organizational proposal he supports would entail the creation of five STR-specific threads.

...which was true. You started another thread for general STR discussion. If it had been allowed to continue, people who wanted to follow the state of the art in STR would have had to follow two disorganized threads instead of one.

Everyone agrees that the current thread is too disorganized, but the solution to that problem shouldn't be to create another disorganized thread with no clear distinction between the two -- it should be to create an organizational structure (which again is the proposal the mod supports).

I strongly disagree with this point, which is why I disagree with the proposal to create a new subforum. As long as STR shares a forum with other autocross and competition topics, there's cross-pollination. People who don't run STR still drop in and add useful input. People who do run STR still comment and help out on threads that aren't STR-specific. If we create an artificial barrier between the two camps, we'll reduce the number of informed commenters in both discussions. I think that loss would outweigh any incremental benefit from a new subforum.

 

This is a good point, and you're right, that is a significant downside.

I actually really like your idea proposed in the other thread to make a few ongoing threads that subdivide in useful ways. I also like your divisions, although I'd put suspension and wheels/tires together, i.e.:
1) STR suspension/tires
2) STR engine tuning
3) STR event/video discussion
4) STR bench racing/rules discussion (already exists)

and of course a FAQ (which could be put in one thread with the BS FAQ in the stickies maybe). How do other people feel about that?

 

Thanks Pedalfaster for sticking up for me.

I've had S2000s for 8 years now and been around a little. It's usually the "enthusiastic" new guys bursting on the scene that are impatient that things don't go their way RIGHT AWAY. I've spent a few years moderating S2000 Talk and now R&C. People may not agree with everything I do and that's okay. But the new guys, they come and go. Most are all talk and no work.

I told TT Martin to go ahead and make a 245 vs 255 tire discussion thread to discuss the point that he wanted to discuss rather than a pan-STR thread that only addressed one topic. It's not that I object at all to the content. It's the lack of organization that was "moderated."

There's a certain culture in the R&C that the new guys might not get yet. Good or bad, I moderate to preserve that. If this turns into Honda-Tech, nobody wins. So I give the people I know are good drivers and builders props and preference. I don't mind naive enthusiasm, but if the information in the Racing and Competition Subforum (and STR thread) gets diluted with people posting only from their "butt dynos," it's going to cease to be a useful resource.

 

Seems like anytime someone disagrees with another's opinion these days there is some malicious conspiracy afoot. The more people that disagree, the bigger the conspiracy. Go figure.

I think what people are saying is that we've had no autocross forum for over 10 years and it has never been a problem for anyone. It's going to take more than suggestion to convince the community that it is going to do anything but fragment the R&C forum and be a trafficless black hole. The point is really that autocross rules are very strict and that means there is very little variation, ergo not a whole lot to talk about once you've said it all once. It's too narrow a topic base to justify a forum on its own. If we are going to chop up the community into little tiny pieces there needs to be a really good reason.

I suggest you go with the first idea of having a sticky FAQ topic in R&C linking the autocross/STR topics of relevance.

 

I'd like to see the "It is a mystery" ghost icon modified to be an "It is a conspiracy" sketchy looking ghost. Maybe with a trenchcoat. Or a monocle. Or a greasy soul patch beard...

 

I agree the conspiracy thing is a bit silly.

As to your other point, while I agree the forum works without a dedicated autocross forum (obviously)....that doesn't mean an autocross forum would be a "trafficless black hole" because we have nothing to talk about. Again using miata.net as an example, the autocross forum has almost three times as much traffic as the track forum, and is one of the most trafficed subforums on the site. Around the same trend seems to be the case here - probably 3/4 of the posting in the racing forum is autocross posts. Believe me when I say there's plenty to talk about. I think that pedalfaster's point is a good one though, and what I would worry about is the track forum not getting much traffic. So I'm fine with leaving it as is.

 

I don't spend much time in the R&C forum recently as it's mainly west coast but I would be quite shocked if in the past couple of years it has been taken over by autocrossers. However, if your assertion is true then there is still no need for a separate autocross forum since you can just take over and make busy the R&C forum (since by your account you represent most of the traffic in there anyway). I don't think homogeneous topic purity is a viable model and unless there is absolutely no relation between the competitive performance activities they need to stay together. If there is a workable compromise it would be to have better autocross representation on the moderator roster to ensure balance and equal access.

IMO there are too many forums as it is and I'm loath to add more without obvious and urgent need.

 

Valid points, I agree, just figure it's good for you to know that there is quite a lot of autocrosser traffic in there.

STR has a lot more to talk about than B stock, and that class only appeared as of last year. So that's why the big jump. Miatas already had more classes than stock for their car to play in, so that's I think why the S2000 community is catching up to them in terms of autocrossing talk.

 

So, Charles / CKit, how about you create the threads that Jon or I proposed, lock the main STR thread, and put this debate to bed, at least temporarily?

Extra credit for sorting the 175 pages of the existing thread into the new ones. (Did I mention I'm glad I'm not moderator anymore? )

 

I'm just a lowly forum member and not part of the conspiracy , but if I may suggest:
1) Make a final post in the STR prep thread that the discussion has moved to new threads with links to them before locking it.
2) Add links to the threads (and probably to the locked STR prep thread) in the racing/competition FAQ. Alternately you could unsticky the stock autocross FAQ, make a new stickied thread called the Autocross FAQ, and inside of it link to both the stock autocross FAQ as well as the STR prep thread and the new STR threads.
3) You might want to at least move the individual posts in the last couple pages of the STR prep thread to their new homes so that active discussions can continue. I think going through the whole thread is ridiculous, but the last page or two is probably a good idea.