This isn't about Beig-No Beig (or shouldn't be). It is about what values a membership-based business uses to satisfy the most members (who by the way account for ALL of the reason the advertisers are here.)

Lately, it seems that our esteemed host has been struggling with these issues greatly (to which I sometimes shook my head and blamed on quitting smoking.)

It seems to me that some valid points are front and center for consideration as larger issues:

1. It does make a difference what the advertisers think.
2. It does make a difference whether the members feel like members.
3. A few hundred people carry this board, despite the rosy view/member counts. How many "members" are never coming back? Were many chased out?
4. It would be easy for such a small group to become inbred and offensive leading to a drop off in membership growth curves.
5. Inconsistently applied or popularity-based behavior codes are a sure, slippery slope to eventual board failure and closure.
6. The vitriol that has emerged among those who seek to ban others is far out of proportion to the supposed banning offences.
7. "If you only knew what I knew, you'd agree" is never a valid argument.
8. When member clicques make opinions-wars into fact-wars, they only hurt our esteemed host and his business (even though they don't intend to.)
9. Quitting smoking is hard. Being unemployed is hard. Affectionate friends try to help by reducing stress, not enhancing it.
10. Pleasing everyone is impossible, so thoughtful people don't feed their egos here.

 

11. cthree is out of pocket $9548.05 net for the first 6 months of this year (not including the last 3 months of 2000) and expects to pay another $4000 or so for the second half of the year to maintain and run this site. All he asks is that people play nice and not cause problems with other members so he can gain some enjoyment from the site also and doesn't have to spend all his time dealing with interpersonal issues and complaints.

12. should someone feel that they could do a better job they should step forward and buy the site and have at it. If you'd rather just show up when you like a post what you like and read interesting threads and not have to deal with nonsense then you should try to respect his request and give him a chance to do the same.

13. the vast majority of cthree's time on the site is spent dealing with problems, critics, and interpersonal squables to the point where he doesn't like showing up anymore and is questioning whether he even should. He rarely ever gets the chance participate normally anymore. 90% of the problems come from less than 1% of the members but out of a sense of fairness and free communication he keeps them around anyway dispite the hardship it causes him personally.

14. Should Bieg, SilverFog, 2x6, et. al. care to put their money where their mouths are and make reasonable offer to purchase the site and run it as they see fit you know my email address. Otherwise make your point and move on. I know for a fact that one recently prominent member is only really causing a stink because he was passed over as a moderator. I don't choose moderators that way, sorry.

15. Expediency would dictate that I could solve 90% of the issues and actually enjoy the site again by gaging only a few members. I know that the net effect would be about nil as far as the site's success is concerned as those members would be replaced by new ones in only a couple of hours. Being the unfair dictatorial prick that cthree is, it's hard to understand why he doesn't just do it and get it over with.

 

Hey brother, sometimes it is the drawing of battle lines that causes the war.

I, for one, don't think you really make these decisions completely on your own. I was just looking to offer an alternative source of advice (to everyone) since I think that, maybe, some of our (your) other sources are steering you wrong. The identified child is seldom the source of family dysfunction. Do whatever you want...

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jschmidt
[B]Hey brother, sometimes it is the drawing of battle lines that causes the war.

 

Well, I'm mouthy and I've got money -- and the former has flapped favourably about the sharing the latter.

I would be even more inclined to revive my PayPal account if there were some part of the board that would measure the running costs, shortfalls and the (anonymous) member donations, or at least post a balance sheet monthly or something so people might get an idea of where it is financially, and help float it according to need and ability.

You don't have to pay income tax if we give you donations that are only solicited to cover costs and shortfalls, and not for profit, do you?


You have a point, and its well taken. Thanks for enduring. I'd only discovered/noticed the "Report Post to a Moderator" feature recently, and I don't think I came running to you more than a couple of times. I am too used to fighting my own battles and not kissing ass.

Maybe the problem is that people didn't want to bother you with little battles and defended themselves, for better or worse, instead of always making it your problem?

 

cthree, some free advice (so you know what it is worth):

Don't sweat the interpersonal squabbles. Now that you have "kill files" for each user, if they don't like someone's attitude, they can kill-file them. If the folks persist in screwing with each other instead of ignoring each other, the individual forum moderator can make a decision to lock the thread. Furthermore, put a counter on each user noting how many kill-files they are on (I assume this wouldn't be too difficult, plenty of UBB systems have poster ratings). It's kind of a self policing system. People who get kill-filed by a lot of people will hurt their reputation and credibility.

In the end, your time shouldn't be devoted to solving people's relationship issues. Your top priorities should be making sure the site is functional as much as possible and raising funding. After that, you should be looking at ways to improve the site. This is where the criticism comes in. No matter how good a site is, you get plenty of it, I know. Take one day a week to go through your suggestion box. By now you must be quite good at throwing out the petty stuff. And make sure people know they won't necessarily get a response. If there is enough interest in a change and you agree with it, then make it, or do a poll and then decide.

Having been through this sort of crap, I know you need to have a personal filter on the emails you get. Its simply impossible to deal with 100 or more emails a day asking you "why don't you do this?" or "why is your site so slow?" or I think you should do this". Most crap messages should take about 10 seconds to peruse.

So, how do you really stay in touch with the user base? Participate, something you've said you don't have the time for, nor the inclination for anymore. That's how you make sure your members are satisfied. If you systematically remove the interpersonal stuff, then maybe you'll get back the time and inclination again to do what got you started on this venture in the first place.

Jim's comment about not pleasing everyone is cliched, but ever so true. Make sure that you're happy first. Doesn't sound like you are right now. If you're happy, then do what you can to please the membership, but do it within your goals and value system.

Banning people is a last resort. I have my own opinions about when it is appropriate, but I'll keep those to myself. However, whenever someone is banned, its akin to a scorched earth policy in warfare. No one wins - and I think the uproar over banning Bieg, a pretty unpopular character if there ever was one, shows that.

Best of luck from someone who has just an inkling of what you're dealing with.

UL

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ultimate lurker
In the end, your time shouldn't be devoted to solving people's relationship issues.

 

Sondra sent this to me:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Abraham Lincoln
If I were to try to read, much less answer, all of the attacks made on me, this shop might as well be closed for any other business.

 

The things that Abraham Lincoln actually said are in fact a nation's treasure.

We're not setting the bar that high, but good point, Sondra -- don't sweat the pundits.

Still looking for the the coin slot on the side of this web-site...

 

I haven't commented on this before but I'd like to toss in my 2 cents:

- I was sadden to hear Bieg was banned, as I enjoyed his thoughtful well researched subjects and many of points that 2x6 spds has pointed out. It's the 'dribble' threads that push my button but thats me; others enjoy them.

- I did NOT like the personal attacks - by Bieg, to Bieg, or any others. Different opinions are fine. Personal attacks are not.

- I don't like clubs when rules are written and do's and don'ts take over. Give me a moderate board with reasonably thinking and intellgent people and then support them. Sounds like we have that. BUT some of the moderators certainly add fuel to the personal attack flames.

- If the board or site owner have a bone to pick and they issue a warning or series of warnings and they are ignored... oh well, then I say follow through.

- If after a cooling off period, and with an open clear mind, the original decision still makes sense, then stand by it. If on the other hand, it was a heat of the battle decision then be a big enough person to reverse it. Either way, you earn respect.

- C-Three if you have shelled out $14k in addition to all your time, then I say it's definitely time for dues, not voluntary contributions. $25 per year is no big deal. If on the other hand, costs are being covered by vendors, thats different.

- Finally, running a club is very tough. There is all the issues from planning to the personal crap and spending endless hours - often thankless. If it comes down to who contributes the most to the club, C-Three sounds like you win and there's no contest. Keep your cool, remind yourself why you took this all on in the first place and try to enjoy it. There are many of us out here who do have an idea about the time and energy it takes and we THANK YOU.

Dave