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Hi, I have two questions about this ITB.
If the hood is closed without intake systems, the ITB only receives hot air instead of cold air. Unlike TODA Racing they offer the tube cover for the ITB to connect to the intake system.
And I did not see any ISCV unit for this ITB.
I understand AT power uses shaftless power to give more airflow under the same diameter.
Hi, I have two questions about this ITB.
If the hood is closed without intake systems, the ITB only receives hot air instead of cold air. Unlike TODA Racing they offer the tube cover for the ITB to connect to the intake system.
And I did not see any ISCV unit for this ITB.
I understand AT power uses shaftless power to give more airflow under the same diameter.
S2000 have high underwood temps should be vented.
This will which reduce the underwood temps, which will help the ITBs.
Almost all of our ITB customers have vented hoods.
The air boxes add some flow restriction to the ITBs and they don't allow the ITB runners to be fully optimized also reducing flow.
Our ITBs out flow the Todas (use jenvey throttles) due to optimized port shape and have made >300 whp on a Mustang dyno.
Do any other S2000 ITBs have IACV?
ITBs typically run higher idles and have idle management in the ECU.
All my friends who have ITB S2000 tell me it is important to have the intake system and the IACV. They all chose the Toda ITB kit + some intake system. I understand that we can set higher idles to avoid using IACV, but it is not an ideal way.
For Horsepower, I saw this video with a dyno showing that a cold air intake system gains more power when the hood is closed.
All my friends who have ITB S2000 tell me it is important to have the intake system and the IACV. They all chose the Toda ITB kit + some intake system. I understand that we can set higher idles to avoid using IACV, but it is not an ideal way.
For Horsepower, I saw this video with a dyno showing that a cold air intake system gains more power when the hood is closed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZRT...7OEcu&index=15
Great data in the video!!
We interpret the results a little differently.
1st..
The open ITBs (with hood open) made more power than that plenum proving less intake restriction is better.
9 hp more vs the 3" intake and 4 more vs 3.5" further proving less restriction is better.
Both intakes they tested did not have kinks or bend in them. They were relatively straight as they were sitting on top of the engine bay with the hood open.
If you route those hoses in front of the radiator the will have a kink it (like the mugen intake) causing a restriction with will lose noticeable power, estimated at least 5 hp if not more, based upon the hp difference from 3-3.5" hose.
If you route it to the corner of the car, you are gong to add bends to it and likely have other restrictions from that area likely losing 5+ hp as well.
All of this validates our original point of not having an air box and a long intake which negates most of the ITB gains due to less restriction
2nd.
As we noted above, a closed S2000 hood with no vents is an issue and this case killed 10-20 hp off the ITBs.
We noted that ITBs needed vented hoods and our customers use vented hoods.
This will significantly reduce under hood temps, especially at speed with air rushing through.
In our experience ITBs with a vented hood, significantly reducing underwood temps, have the least restriction.
Also, some of our customers run ducting with an outlet near the ITBs bring more cool air over, with out restricting the ITBs.
On the IACV..
Our ITBs have ports underneath each runner, like the Todas, so if you want to run hoses to an enclosed box/block/plenum and run an IACV, you can.
There is nothing more that that Toda have to support IACV.
That being said, in our experience the cost, time an effort and engine clutter to get IACV to run properly is not worth it on ITBs.
Note, most high performance ITB motorcycles do not run IACVs.
Our ITBs have bleed adjusters to help set up idle. Plus with a good tune, you mange the idle from start to warm up.
Much simpler set up and it is reliable.
We have sold 30+ set of ITBs and our customers have tried lots of set ups.
Almost no one runs IACV and they idle just fine.
The most power is with a vented hood and hood scoop and a filter plenum that has the least restriction.
Woc, thank you for explaining each of my questions. According to your explanation, Vent Hood + AT ITB will be much cheaper than just buying TODA ITB with a surge tank and intake system.
So, none of your customers will run your ITB system on rainy days, right? Sometimes, the track days are just rainy days. will be an issue for your system since the air foam is directly put on the ITB instead of being protected by the surge tank.
Woc, thank you for explaining each of my questions. According to your explanation, Vent Hood + AT ITB will be much cheaper than just buying TODA ITB with a surge tank and intake system.
So, none of your customers will run your ITB system on rainy days, right? Sometimes, the track days are just rainy days. will be an issue for your system since the air foam is directly put on the ITB instead of being protected by the surge tank.
I am not sure how much the Toda ITBs, plenum, custom CAI and IACV set up costs, so I can not confirm lower cost.
Our designs engine goals are power efficiency first, then simplicity 2nd.
So the point I was trying to make was we believe our open ITBs, with filter plenum, vented hood enable the most power potential.
Running ITBs in the rain is not an issue.
Typical vented hoods focus on extracting air after the radiator and do not have openings above the ITBs.
Even if they did, a foam plenum will prevent large amounts of water into the ITBs, it would simply be humid air.
Which would not be much different than driving a non ITB car in the rain. Either way, you don't typically use WOT in the rain (unless you are in an endurance race).
Most track days would pause during rain or cancel if pouring as crashing go up exponentially.
On the IACV..
Our ITBs have ports underneath each runner, like the Todas, so if you want to run hoses to an enclosed box/block/plenum and run an IACV, you can.
There is nothing more that that Toda have to support IACV.
That being said, in our experience the cost, time an effort and engine clutter to get IACV to run properly is not worth it on ITBs.
Note, most high performance ITB motorcycles do not run IACVs.
Our ITBs have bleed adjusters to help set up idle. Plus with a good tune, you mange the idle from start to warm up.
Much simpler set up and it is reliable.
The todas have a separate set of ports on the manifold flange to split the IACV system off into it's own system. Like you said it isn't necessary and you can get by with setting the idle higher. This feature is one of the primary reasons I swapped from my Hayward/Jenveys to the Todas. I wanted mine as close to OEM as absolutely possible which is why I did the extra work to incorporate the IACV into my setup.
@Setsuna It really comes down to what the end user is planning on doing with the car and how how much work they want to do to dial everything in. If you check the NA section of these forums there are some threads that document the specifics of the Urge and Toda kits. Those should help give you a good idea of what you're getting into. I have the Todas and a local has a set of the Urge ITBs. You really can't go wrong either way. It's worth noting that if you are after sound as part of the reasons you want ITBs with the Toda surge tank and a Mugen intake it's going to be relatively quiet compared to open throttles.
The todas have a separate set of ports on the manifold flange to split the IACV system off into it's own system. Like you said it isn't necessary and you can get by with setting the idle higher. This feature is one of the primary reasons I swapped from my Hayward/Jenveys to the Todas. I wanted mine as close to OEM as absolutely possible which is why I did the extra work to incorporate the IACV into my setup.
@Setsuna It really comes down to what the end user is planning on doing with the car and how how much work they want to do to dial everything in. If you check the NA section of these forums there are some threads that document the specifics of the Urge and Toda kits. Those should help give you a good idea of what you're getting into. I have the Todas and a local has a set of the Urge ITBs. You really can't go wrong either way. It's worth noting that if you are after sound as part of the reasons you want ITBs with the Toda surge tank and a Mugen intake it's going to be relatively quiet compared to open throttles.
can you please share some photo of the linkage throttle cable?do you use oem cable ?is any chance for a throttle cam that will slow open until 30 % of throttle ?thanks
URGE designs Sonic ITBs
