Although I'm glad to see the return of a real performance derivative of the Civic (the last gen hatchback Si was a joke, imho), I'm still a bit disappointed in Honda. First, the new Si is just a little too "out there" styling-wise, for me. The exterior isn't attractive, and the interior is a little too gadgety for my tastes.

Second, this new Si is still a pig. I'm glad it makes more power than an RSX Type S - it weighs more as well, so it's going to need that extra power. At 2900 pounds, it's only about 500 pounds lighter than my all wheel drive CR-V! It's heavier than an S2000, and it's 700 pounds heavier than my Miata.

Why Honda didn't see fit to stick an LSD, similar suspension tuning, and this more powerful engine (if it really is more powerful than the production Type S powerplant) in the lighter, sleeker, and better-looking RSX Type S years ago is beyond me. They would have sold a ton of them.

 

I think it is a pretty good value when you compare it with the competition currently/soon available: Mazdaspeed 3, Scion tC, RSX-S, Cobalt SS/Ion Redline, SRT-4, WRX, Mini & Mini-S, GTI. The Si should run circles around most of these, save for maybe the SRT-4, Mini-S, and the Mazdaspeed 3 remains to be seen. Each of these fall around the same price OR offer less equipment.

I'd certainly like more of a Type-R version of the Si with less "fluff", but that's probably not going to happen. In stock form, the Si should be able to click off upper 14 sec. 1/4 mi. times with trap speeds in the mid to high 90s. Based on the tuneability of the K-series engine and how well they respond to mods, extracting power should be a no-brainer.

As far as the RSX costing more due to being an Acura, that's not quite true. It's a Honda in all parts of the world except North America and the treatments are the same.

The E36 is a great car. The full Dinan supercharged version remains one of the favorite cars I've had the pleasure of driving. I was not knocking your vehicle, but suggesting a counter perspective to the "just a Civic" comment.

The point is, this Si is the best Civic Si yet. I think it will prove to be the latest Honda tuner showcase vehicle with lots of cred being built-up on the racetracks here in the US and elsewhere. It should fill the gap left when the RSX bows, likely following this '06 model year, to live with the CRX and Prelude.

Ryan

 

Styling is subjective, so I can't comment there. As far as being a pig, I agree. The Si has 6 airbags: side, side curtain, and dual front. Add to that the ACE unibody structure to make it crashworthy even with these hulking SUVs crowding the road, extensive NVH control (sound deadening), a big stereo, etc. and it's no wonder performance cars are getting heavy. This Si weights about 40 lbs. more than the '05 RSX-S. In race trim, by stripping all the crap out, it should be reasonably lightweight.

To sell more RSXs, all Honda had to do was import the Type-R version. I would have traded my Type-S in for one. Oh well.

Ryan

 

From http://hondanews.com/CatID2013?mid=2...7204&mime=asc:

DX Coupe - 2593
DX Sedan - 2628
EX Coupe - 2765
EX Sedan - 2804
Hybrid - 2875
Si - 2877

Also, taking inflation into account - a car that cost $16,476 in 1995 would cost $20,500 today. A '95 Civic EX Sedan had an MSRP of $16,280. And the MY06 Si gives MUCH more. Here's a list of cheap cars I found on carsdirect.com, to compare:

2006 Chevrolet Aveo -------- $9,455
2005 Hyundai Accent -------- $9,999
2005 Kia Rio -------- $10,195
2006 Saturn ION -------- $11,925
2006 Scion xA -------- $12,730
2005 Kia Spectra -------- $12,850
2006 Nissan Sentra -------- $13,100
2005 Hyundai Elantra -------- $13,299
2005 Suzuki Aerio -------- $13,449
2005 Suzuki Forenza -------- $13,449
2005 Suzuki Reno -------- $13,449
2006 Ford Focus -------- $13,450
2006 Mazda Mazda3 -------- $13,710
2005 Dodge Neon -------- $13,800
2006 Scion xB -------- $13,880
2006 Chevrolet Cobalt -------- $13,900
2006 Toyota Corolla -------- $14,005
2006 Chrysler PT Cruiser -------- $14,210
2005 Mitsubishi Lancer -------- $14,299
2006 Honda Civic -------- $14,360
2006 Toyota Matrix -------- $15,110
2005 Kia Spectra5 -------- $15,250
2006 Chevrolet HHR -------- $15,425
2005 Suzuki Aerio SX -------- $15,449
2005 Volkswagen Golf -------- $15,830
2006 Scion tC -------- $16,200
2006 Pontiac Vibe -------- $16,430
2005 MINI Cooper -------- $16,950
2006 Volkswagen New Beetle -------- $17,180
2006 Volkswagen Jetta -------- $17,900
2006 Subaru Impreza -------- $18,295
2006 Subaru Outback Sport -------- $19,195
2005 Honda Insight -------- $19,330
2005 MINI Cooper S -------- $20,400
2005 Toyota Prius -------- $21,275

 

Wow, sounds like the Suzuki Aero is the best price/performance car. Third fastest of the list (8.3 second 0-60, MINI S at 8.0 is fastest) and only $13,500!

 

You're right, dude. Your M3 gets mad props and the new Civic and RSX-S are pieces of crap.

 

As much as I love the M3 sedan I dont see how your point is valid. You are comparing a used car (8yrs old is really old) to a brand spanking new vehicle.

 

How do you not understand what i'm saying? Ryan was saying the Civic is superior to my car in performance and I was saying that my car can still hold it's own especially straight line and it's an 8 year old design? Performance is performance whether it's a 69 Camaro SS or a 06 Z06, you can compare raw numbers regardless of age.

BTW the despite being 10 years old the E36 M is still the closest competitor for the S2000 in straight line power and handling feel and was the best handling car at any price in 97 so I think that says something.

And QuickAG i'm not sure if you're trying to be sarcastic or not but if you think the civic is a well respected performance vehicle then i'm not even going to bother arguing with you. Really none of this really matters, if you have the 21 grand and you like the civic go buy it, it's not like I care what you do with your money.

 

i don't think well able to say its just a..... for long. look at hyundai. i think alit of pal are stepping up the quality of cars all around. i'm not saying that hyundais and civics as well as other cars/manufactures are the most luxurious cars but they've come a looooong way from what they used to be.

 

Ooookieee.....well whatever, I ordered mine! I don't care about performance numbers. It's just gotta be fun to drive, which the new Si is. There may be a better bang for the buck like a SRT-4 or a WRX, but those are built like shit, have no resale value, and they aren't nearly as fun to drive. And yes, styling is subjective. I own an Accord coupe, and I think Both the new Si and Accord look great.