This is meant to be constructive, but I know someone's feelings will be hurt.

It was quite a departure from past tracks, in some ways better and some ways worse.

I never got to walk the track, drive a parade lap or see a map (why don't we ever have enough copies of the map to go around?) because I had to get a tire fixed before I could run and going onto the course blind it was very hard to follow. The center section in front of the timing booth had plenty of pointer cones and you couldn't get lost there, but there were some other sections that could have benefitted from an extra pointer cone or 2.

There could have been more pointer cones on the 2 cut backs (one on each side) where the turn was much longer and cut further back than you thought. You know the ones, the ones you almost had to look over your shoulder to find the next gate. In both cases you could look over the track and see another gate which could make you think that was the road to take. This gave me a momentary period of confusion every time. We had the cones,there were a bunch sitting by the timing booth.

I thought it was way too slow, but I always think we ought to be able to hit 70 mph in at least one part of the track and see no reason why we can't hit 70 in several areas.

It was very technical and there is nothing wrong with that, but the back straight was way too slow. I was in a Miata this time and I still thought it was too slow. We had great pointer cones on the section of gates almost in front of the timing booth. But, once again, they were more extreme and slower than they needed to be.

Slow & tight favors Miatae (this is the S2000 club isn't it?). Maybe that is why we don't have many S2000s at our runs, they seem to want to go to BMW or Porsche where overall higher speeds are possible. I don't mean top speed, I mean overall higher speed on the track.

On the same note the sweeper at turn 5 had an unnecessary kink in it also. ( to slow us down?)

The slaloom was great!

BUT THE MAIN CRITICISM was the single run aspect. The flying run is what makes our autocrosses unique and more fun than the rest! I personally liked the old style 3 runs better than the 2 run format we have been running recently. We get more runs in less time, there is less work on the timekeepers, but more importantly we get the hit the track again while it is very fresh in our minds and can improve our driving skills more.

How about a poll to see who still prefers multiple runs?

I did like the larger run groups, it allowed time to make adjustments to tires or whatever between times on track.

OK flame suit on, let the games begin.

 

I enjoyed the course. I did get to do the drive through, but I didn't walk the course or ride with anyone. Even then, my best run was my 1st (I only did 4 runs before going home).

As much as I enjoyed doing hot laps, I prefer singles. No matter how you design the course, with hot laps, the drivers have to choose which of the hot laps will be the "real" one. The reason for this is because you have to choose your strategy for going through the timing gate between laps. You can either take it fast to get a good 1st run, or take it slow and set yourself up for the 2nd run. This course would have been tough to do hot laps. Hot laps also reduce the number of cars on course, since spacing is harder to control. I also want to see my times for each individual lap, so I can see if my approach is working. With hot laps, you can only really adjust your approach twice throughout the day and see results.

The thing that you have to consider is that you are autocrossing on street tires. Every course will be "slow" on street tires. If you were to hit 70 on a course, someone else on R compounds will probably be hitting 80. I usually get into the 90's at BMW events.

Aside from me not having serviceable tires, I thought this was the best event yet. My only criticism is that we may not have had enough corner workers for such a long course.

 

Another comment is that maybe we should see how many air conditioners that Honda generator will run. Or maybe we could just have night events during the summer.

 

Boy, running a course on headlights would be interesting!

You don't have to "choose" which run will be your good run, you get to try different approaches while it is fresh in your mind. On a 3 run course my best time is usually my 2nd try. I usually try something on the 3 that goes over the edge, but I learn from it.

 

You DO have to choose which run will be your good run, because the best line through a gate depends completely on how well you want to take the gate before OR after that gate. If you are crossing the timing gate at the beginning of your 1st run, you are setting up for a fast exit speed from the gate. If you are crossing the timing gate between your 1st and 2nd run, you have to compropise your entry speed for a good exit speed. At the end of your 2nd run, you are setting up for a fast entry speed only, and don't care about exit speed.

 

NO you don't have to choose. The way most of the courses have been set up a fast exit speed makes for a fast entry speed.

Now the best of both worlds would be a display like SCCA has and a longer distance between the finish and start lines so you could see your times.

But now we get down to a crucial point, if the last .0001 of speed makes that big a difference to you then maybe you are running at the wrong event. Go SCCA.

This is exactly why I didn't want a point structure for S2000 events. It changes the whole character of the runs. THIS IS FOR FUN. If you want hard core competition go to a venue that is geared for that. You can't have it both ways. Either it is loose and fun or it is hard core competition. They simply don't mix. I still feel the points and the competition will develop into something that will tear the club apart or at the very least change it so much that it becomes something totally different than it was set up to be in the first place.

If anyone wants hard core competition go SCCA, softcore competion go BMW, or Porsche. I like the BMW & Porsche events mainly due to the overall higher speeds of the courses, but I dislike the fact that there is next to no comraderie. There are a lot of little groups keeping to themselves instead of one big friendly group which is what we have had at the S2000 events and I am afraid we will loose.

I like the limit of 40 cars it lets you do things you can't do at the other events. It lets us make multiple passes and more runs in a day. I wish we could find a location closer, but that's another issue all together.

My schedule wouldn't allow me to run events with any regularity if I wanted to. An open and changing group of people isn't condusive to a points structure. A point structure only works well in a closed group. That's not what I thought the club was about.

And in keeping with the "friendly" type event, if a couple of people on R rubber is what is keeping the majority of us from having as much fun as we should, then maybe R rubber should be banned. Once again, this is not some big time competitive event.

Greg, I know you and I are opposite ends of this subject, but I heard a lot of talk this time out that seemed to more support my way of thinking more than yours. (although no one has chimed in here so far).

Why not establish a regular meeting sometime shortly after the event and give out more funny type of awards. Most improved, Best spin, Top time, Slowest time, Best excuse. etc. Gives some egos the boost they seem to demand and builds a better, more friendly club in the process. A lot of clubs have a regular monthly meeting that is more car related rather than just a social gathering. Go to the Z club meetings to see how a good one is operated. They have scheduled dinner meetings once a month and social gatherings at various times. They have good comraderie and meet and talk a lot afterward.

I would post a poll to the lap thing, but don't know how. After I check the Poll option I don't know what to do next. Anyone?

 

Not being a member or S2K owner, I am not sure if my opinion is welcome, but I will share it

I thoroughly enjoyed the event, and considered it to be one of the best autox events I have been to. The lunch break and lunch were awesome. The course was faster and more open than the typical SCCA/ER course, while still somewhat technical in places. I would have liked to have seen the start/finish line farther from the wall, as I was carrying too much speed through the finish to stop for it. The only run I went through the finish lights under full power resulted in a spin trying to make the turn at high speed. I noticed that Gabby was also braking before the finish. Also, I don't think the sweeper in 5 originally had that kink, but the course was moved to avoid a potential tire hazard in the course, which resulted in the kink.

As for the competitive nature if the event, I think that will come out in people regardless of the rules. Tis the nature of the (human) beast. The only way to eliminate it would be to turn off the timers, which I suspect will turn off participation.

Thanks,
Chuck

 

There is some good feeback coming from this thread. However, I'd like to redirect everyone here in an attempt to focus on the changes we made: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...threadid=137511

BTW, anyone who attended is very welcome to chime in.

 

The only negative feedback I've seen since the addition of points has been from you. There has been NO change in atmosphere at the events or on the forum.

The events YOU are looking for are PCA Time Trials, not autocrosses. Aside from the BMW club, we have the fastest, longest autocrosses around. PCA, ER and SCCA all have "traditional" autocrosses with short, slow, technical courses.

Your suggestion to ban R compound tires is like demanding that all "friendly" basketball games be played with soccer shoes. I personally choose to autocross with the proper (less expensive) equipment. I get more distance out of my tire buying dollar by racing on R compounds. Maybe you will figure it out one day.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David b
[B]NO you don't have to choose.