Folks -

Just had a talk with Mike at Honda House. Here's what he said:

The valve retainers,, keepers, springs and guides on an S2000 are not heavy duty enough for track or high speed touring driving. The word Mike used was "junk" and he strongly recommended fitting aftermarket, stronger pieces.

He said it was very likely that the problem was a top end problem, as the bottom ends on S2000s are "rock, solid, bullet proof".

He agreed that borescoping would be helpful to some degree, but that if you could hear problems in the engine, it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that the head would have to be pulled anyway to do a full diagnosis.

He did say that 5 hours of labor for pulling the head while the motor was in the car was a good price. He said he would charge at least that much.

Mike agreed that the advice I got to drive the car home was not good.

He said their shop would not take on an full engine rebuild of an S2000 (or any other car). They do mostly maintenance work and would not want to dedicate so much time to one car.

He advised that JO/TECH in Garland might do such work, and had Honda racing experience.

FYI...any comments appreciated.

Paul

 

I haven't dealt with JoTech - but I know that they've been around awhile and that they do lots of performance (and exterior) upgrades etc. I believe the buzzword is "import tuner shop".

I saw some of their cars racing at Ennis one time. Probably a pretty good place.

They're down by the huge wal mart at Shiloh and 635

 

Top-end = Head (and valvetrain components, etc)
Bottom-end = block (and rods, pistons, crankshaft, oil pan, etc)

 

Mike used these words: "racing, track work and high speed touring". I was pretty surprised by that as well, given everything else I have read and heard seems to indicate the S2000 is more or less built for hard use (excepting the old banjo bolts).

"Top end" meant valve train, "bottom end" meant the lower half of the engine.

The worst part was the the failure occurred while we were out on a 3 day Hill Country run with the Porsche club.

We've run with them before, and kept up no problem (as well as whipped our share of Boxsters and 911s on the track), but it was embarrassing.

I was running with the five fastest 911 owners and having quite a bit of fun at the time...but I will say their ribbing at dinner was good natured, and I guess we can still go out with our Boxster next time, although it is not nearly as much fun to drive as the S2000...

Thanks,

Paul

 

Sorry, but I've got to call poo on this... I know of many 100K+ mile 9K rpm reving S2000 motors that have plenty of track and spirited miles with no major issues. "Junk" won't take you that far, and trouble free, under those conditions.

 

Given all the track work that various people around the country have done with their S2000s, my feeling is that it's not accurate to describe the S2000 valve train as weak. But then, I've never torn one down. Ultimate Lurker would be the best experienced to comment on this.

Anyway, while I haven't read through the entire book that marcucci posted, given his comments on oiling and yours about driving with an open oil-filter attachment point... Given the timeframe of that, I think marcucci has it right than an oiling issue led to damage that finally showed itself in a bad way.

 

I would have to agree re: weak valve trains; it seems to defy logic and evidence.

And I agree with the oiling problems...we'll see what the dealer steps up to. I floated a trial balloon by them today and got a non-answer. That said, until the problem is fully diagnosed, I would react the same.

I would also note this dealer has been very helpful and delivered excellent service throughout my experience, and as many of you know, I've had many opportunities to need help.

For example, most recently they vouched to Honda for my need for a new top at 70k miles. I realize that this didn't cost the dealer any money, but they certainly expended effort and cred with Honda to get it done, and saved me some cash in the process.

Paul

 

take what I'm saying with a grain of salt since it could just be the counter guy. then again if this is an example of the knowledgable staff they hire..
I was in Jotech a couple years ago to ask how much they'd charge to put a B16A cable tranny swap into my 1st gen Integra. they told me that it can't be done and that it's too impossible for anyone to do it. which is VERY funny to me since the integra and civic engines are 98% swappable and the b16A was a drop in for the 1st gen.. needless to say that left a bad impression on me and I have never returned.. not even for anything as small as water wetter

 

I don't know who this guy is, but you should definitely not trust anything he says. I agree with clovis (though I don't think I'd use the word "poo"), this is just not true. First, the valvetrain on the S2k is very solid. Not sure why they would say that. I've seen the valvetrain come apart on Civics, Preludes... never on an S2k. Secondly, though the bottom end IS solid, it is more susceptible to failures from oiling issues than any other Honda I've seen, save for maybe the old B21 and H23 Preludes.

I definitely call BS on the term "junk." Even if you limit the conversation to Hondas only, the S2k's top end ranks up there as one of the best.

The problem is not likely in the top end. If so, it was a secondary failure.

Whether or not you replace or rebuild the bottom end, have the top end checked out thoroughly. You don't want to put a bad head back on a good/new bottom end. This should not be difficult or expensive (basically a visual).

I would suggest that you do not rebuild that bottom end if it does have obvious heat damage. Spend the $2k to get a new bottom end from Honda and have the dealer install it.

To steal a line from Iain, I would advise that if your car were on fire and Jotech had the last fire extinguisher in town, you let the motherf**ker burn. The only good work I have seen come out of them is Kenny's Civic. I have fixed a lot of their problems and have tried to save a few people from their grip. If you go there, you will get sucked into a long, painful, expensive ordeal.