First, let me address one thing for (hopefully) the final time. WSB NOMINATED me, but the community got to have their say:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...c=421286&st=0&

As I recall, WSB was also nominated in the wake of the drama post-FWT04 (in part because he did not attend.) I am not going to search for that thread too, but I do believe there was a vote.

It is also my recollection that Luder94 went to the site mods and asked to be made CO of UMW after taking over the FWT05 meet. AFAIK there was never a vote. That said, I'll be honest in admitting that I probably would have voted for him at the time.


Now that has been addressed, I'd like to address my concerns about the current situation. Participation has dropped off considerably. Some of the drop off started while I was still CO, but it has accelerated since I have stepped down. I feel like the UMW is "under attack" from other forums which are more "fun." I get a general sense that people do not feel welcomed here, and are leaving for other forums. Not S2000 specific maybe, but certainly car oriented or Honda oriented.
It is very telling when a new member feels like he has to PM a CO to see if it's ok if he starts a new thread.

So why do I stay? What am I doing here?
Well, I joined this community 7 years ago, when I first bought my S2000. I enjoyed the camaraderie and the experiences I shared with my fellow owners and enthusiasts. I have formed lifelong friendships with people I have met through S2ki. I have no interest in stepping away from them, or the place I met them. I thought I would NEVER sell my car. And when I saw people selling their cars, I ALWAYS encouraged them to remain a part of this wonderful community.

Now I see participation dropping off. A lack of meets, events and opportunities to enjoy the group of friends and it frustrates me.

There were no beater meets this winter. The UMW Dragon run never happened last year (despite promise after promise that it would happen and that it would be organized.)

I see over-moderation shutting down communication, interaction and participation. I see a plan for 4 sub-forums to segment and divide the communication further and I think it's the wrong direction.

There were some useful threads in the sticky area, in particular the event and track calendars. Both of which have been largely ignored by the community organizers since I stepped down, but still USED by the community. If there was a grand plan to replace that functionality, I haven't heard it. And when it was asked that they be returned, the thread was shut down and all conversation halted.

I realize that I am not really giving these new ideas a chance. I admit that, and also that I might be wrong. Perhaps these are exactly the changes that are needed. But it was a month ago that they were mentioned with no further action or update on their status. When I asked for a timeline, I was flat out ignored. A great idea with no execution is worthless.

I don't feel that Luder94 interacts with the community enough. I don't believe he is BUILDING the community. I asked Luder94 for 3 years to get involved both on the forum and off with PEOPLE. Not just as a mod, cold and distant enforcing the rules, but as a PERSON engaged and interested. I have asked him to either do that, or step down and make room for someone who would do that.

It became clear that as long as he and I were both CO's that we would not accomplish the goal of strengthening and building the community as we would spend too much time fighting each other. This is (in part) why I stepped down as CO. I truly hoped that stepping down would give Luder94 the room to grow and to be a GREAT CO, but it hasn't happened. It has become dictatorial, regimented and stifling. I cannot sit idly by and watch that happen any longer.

 

Good point, Keith.

That being said, I would like to see the following happen:

A more welcoming attitude to non-owning enthusiasts. I may be beating a dead horse with this one, but if the site ONLY allowed CURRENT owners to join / retain a user account, I have a feeling s2ki would have died a long time ago, or at least never became what it was and is now. One of the best parts about the S2000 is that it didn't seem to have the pretentiousness that came with owning it compared to similar cars, ala Porsche Boxster or BMW Z-series', yet this attitude seems quite the contrary. It has been told to me and the public in general that this is a site for S2000 owners and ENTHUSIASTS, and I don't believe that making strong statements differentiating the two has any place from any member of the community, ESPECIALLY someone in a leadership position, and ESPECIALLY when it is used as a method to primarily attack ONE person. IMO, those kind of statements with this intent should be kept in private, and quite frankly seem rather immature.

More encouragement for any member to host or even suggest meets. You don't have to be a CO, or even a very active member, to host a meet or suggest an idea for a unique meet or something you haven't seen done before. Regardless of my "position" in the community, I will continue to host or facilitate in hosting meets.

More community involvement / input in decisions that will affect the community. I understand that most leaders in any group ultimately have directions they would like to steer that group, but it would be nice to have potential decisions discussed openly and freely BEFORE drastic actions are taken.

I feel any and / or all of the current CO nominations listed would do great things for the community; I simply would like some form of transparency to the whole decision, even if it isn't brought about by a community nomination / vote (my preferred choice). Maybe I don't fully understand ALL of the responsibilities of the COs, but considering any of us can host meets and continue to post here and stay in touch, I don't feel the community would disintegrate if we took the time for proper nominations and voting. That being said, I would have gladly nominated all three of the individuals currently in the running with no hesitation. Similar to the Charlie / Leon vote, though, sure voter turnout may seem low, it is because any of these options would be great for the community.

I can't stress enough how much I love what this community has allowed and provided for me, and regardless of directions it may take, I still intend to maintain the friendships that I have made and hopefully continue to make new ones through a bond that we all apparently share: appreciation and enthusiasm for a great machine.

 

Thanks for the kind words pat

I've gotta say that aquatic's post resonates the most with me.

This discussion should happen in person over a beer or something.... the other thing to realize is that we do not live in an ideal world.

Democracy is a wonderful thing when it works, but oftentimes, especially with hobbies/recreational activities? It doesn't. Why?

People honestly just want to be CONSUMERS not producers.... making a conscious decision is actually a product. Sometimes, people just want to have fun.

We all want to be heard (we are all on a forum after all), but not everyone is willing to put forth the time, effort, and the general level of concern required to bring these voices and these wants into reality.

This is where I've come to understand a "Community Organizer" fits in... they ARE willing to put forth the time, effort, and general level of concern. Being empathic and understanding the community you serve is what separates a mod/admin from being a great mod/admin....

I like to think of my moderating and administration experience as being 1 part cop/hall-monitor, 7 parts party-host, and 2 parts party-guest......

Again, I'm a relative n00b here, but will say this, all the CO's I've ever met have been kind, generous, and friendly. Pete, Urmil, Charlie... yeah you guys.

Thanks!

 

I guess I'm not privy to all the bickering and behind the scenes stuff...

I have had fun and am happy with the stuff I've done with the UMW S2ki guys in the ~2.5 years I have been around. My girlfriend even tolerates the group! lol

Notable experiences:
Kettle Moraine scenic drive 2009
Warren Dunes Meet 2009
St Charles Meet at Duanet's place 2009
Lombard Restaurant meet (Rock Bottom) 2010
KBAB last weekend 2010

Only time I didn't have fun was the beach up north of Milwaukee last summer... because most everyone was drunk and I'm not a drinker... so yea

I believe I have made some friends and we all have a shared interest, so its all good, right? I browse the s2ki forum and UMW almost daily and have learned a lot. If I had the space, I would host a meet or two this summer. I enjoy photography and car detailing, and would like to share my skills and knowledge with others.

You can see that I haven't been to many get togethers, but I enjoy the time it takes me to drive to/from. I hope to attend more things this year as my schedule allows.

 

I'm keeping this short...

-Personally, I feel the community is a lot of fun.
-I feel that discussions like this should be made over the phone or in person.
-I agree with Aquatic that this thread will be toxic to the community.

There are positives and negatives to how we would vote for new COs. I think if anything we should vote on how to choose the new COs. Take it from there and if we decide to make a vote on people we can do it that way.

To keep people registered to the site we need to be more involved. More meets, plain and simple.

 

I agree with everyone, I even disagree with how I said things earlier, I wasn't upset at urmil as a person, I was upset with the current decisions and I blamed it on urmil, which I take responsibility for.

That said I will continue on with what Harry said;

First issue and how to fix it: Two new CO's are needed... A nomination process should take place and even if only two people vote, it still the community voting. If ANY moderator on any part of community wants to vote, they have the right to vote as much as anyone in the UMW as they have a higher community organization and share responsibilities as a whole site. Voting will take place 3 weeks from the nominees being picked. Perhaps we can appoint a mod/admin from another part of the site to help out here until things are worked out.

Second issue and how to fix it: Owners or enthusiasts alike should be allowed and welcomes to meets and any other events unless. There should be a rule list made for events, IE no squealing tires, no pounding music, no asshatary, etc. It is everyones responsibility to ensure the safety of their own belongings and the community has no responsibility for anything that happens to an individual or their belongings. No talking about how someone doesn't have a car so they shouldn't be allowed, no matter who they are, they might want to buy an s2k and want to know more about them.

Third issue and how to fix it: Official and unofficial meets; Official meets must have at least ONE CO at the event, unofficial meets can be any other car event but are not supported by the s2k community and a CO is not required to show up to these events.

Final issue and my recommendation: We need more CO's there should be two active members for Illinois, one for Chicago, one for Wisconsin and one for Michigan, the Michigan and Chicago CO's should share responsibilities for Indiana and try to rebuild the relationship with that group, perhaps this will require hosting a meet in Indiana. With this ammount of CO's there should be a WEEKLY meet in one state or another thats offical from April 1 to October 1 (not to say there wouldn't be more).

 

Pete,

I'm not sure if you noticed this, but I haven't addressed you directly since Sept. You've become VERY irrelevant to the community. In fact, you've become quite toxic to any effort to try and garner any enthusiasm and much needed change in attitude to the community.

Ever since you've come to the community, you've been a 'negative nancy'. You find joy in cutting people down, you enjoy people's failures, you thrive on talking about people behind their back like a high school girl, you like polarizing cliques within the UMW.

Joeking, dezoris, and me are just a few examples of people you've done it to. That's fine, that's your personality....but that's what makes you toxic...and tragic. Why is it that you've had two Corvettes since you've owned your one S2000, yet you haven't acclimated to at least one of the MANY Corvette forums out there? My guess is that you're irrelevant there too.

You're popularity with a clique and your relentless pursuit to not be forgotten keeps you on S2Ki.

The only thing that keeps you going is by questioning everything I've tried doing to change some things on UMW forum to get some new activity. Yet, in your typical negative nancy way, you criticize and question things before anything gets going...which takes the air out of the sails before we get off the beach. Thank you for that...then again, that may just be a symptom of your style of leadership .

When you implemented changes (you know, rules to Windy City, rules to driving etiquette, rules to FS forum, rules to posting guidelines), you just did it. There was no transparency...you just did it...you even gave a member of Team Shocker a time-out as a result of the non-transparent change). Yet, when I try something, you as a member (non-CO) want full details of what, why, when, how..etc. How hypocritical?

As for becoming CO...you were appointed, not voted. WSB ran the idea past me, I agreed, and then it got SECONDED by members. It wasn't a vote; all WSB needed was agreement from me, and a second. If that thread is your idea of a vote, you're misguided.

Also, I DID NOT approach the moderators to become CO. I was already organizing S2000 meets and events with a regularity and popularity without being a CO. Lee approached WSB to get me to become CO of UMW while planning the WTD '05 event. WSB asked me, I agreed...

After WTD '05 I continueed organizing meets and events...it wasn't until you told me multiple times to "...stop organizing everything..." So when you became CO, I stepped back and let you do what you did. Now look where we are...with that and your negativity towards everything.

It's almost laughable that you think I approached the mods to become CO. If you don't remember clearly, let me remind you...at the time, I was squarely a pro-S2KCA member...in fact, I was the Midwest Regional Director there. At that time, S2Ki and S2KCA didn't get along...in fact, at one point I was given a temp. ban from this site for it.

Your perception of accelerated 'drop-off' since you stepped down is also laughable. You step down right before Winter and then blame the inactivity on your stepping down; did you plan that? I wouldn't put your coniving ways past that; just like making any negative comments this past Saturday at KBAB. If you care so much about the UMW community, why are you so intent on destroying it?

You see participation dropping off? Stop spreading negativity about people. Stop polarizing groups of people so that people don't have to choose what person's meet to go to or not. It's March...it's 40 degrees. Give the season a chance.

Even in this post...negative criticism from you, one after the other. UMW Dragon event didn't happen because schedules didn't work out due to track schedule, due to organizers (both Charlie and me) not being able to get the same weekends free to do it. No Winter beater meets...c'mon man, you yourself just complained about the inactivity on the forum.

As for your thought on how the UMW is/was to be organized, no one asked your opinion. The idea was to throw some change at the wall to see what sticks. The things that stick, will/would stay. The stuff that doesn't, it'd get tweaked, or we'd revert back to the original way. Remember "Windy City"...that was an idea that got thrown to the wall that stuck...but that was ok, because at the time you were CO. Now that you're not, damn it if Luder94 tries something or heaven forbid he is successful.

As for the changes, your posts were dumped because they offered nothing nothing but negative criticism with no positive solutions, alternatives, etc. That's been your M.O. since as long as I've known you...shit on everything that you don't agree with.

Pete, seriously you make it REAL difficult for me to interact with the community. I know you spill your negativity about me to people before they meet me. With that and what happened at last year's KBAB, it's gotten harder for me to read people without distrust. Your asking me to get involved in the community for 3 years is a joke...you never asked. You made snyde comments like your usual self.

You stepped down to give me room to be a GREAT CO....c'mon, who are you fooling? Stop trying to put up a good face to the community. The many people that don't readily participate here for the last 3 years know that you're a jerk.

Next time you need a toast a shot to an 'asshole' like me, make sure you guys are doing doubles or triples.

 

Keith,

This is exactly the level-headedness and tactful type of response I expected from someone like you.

This is one of the many facets that make a great leader and why I'm trying to get you, Mountain-Man, and ScrapDog appointed.

Much to what's been stated here...the voting process hasn't worked in the UMW. We just don't have a good representation of all the owners participating...so what happens is the current participation votes on like-minded person. The people that try and come back to participate don't see a change and continue not to participate.

Going forward, if the appointments go through, then at that point, maybe the appointees will be given a grace period before voting occurs.

But then again, we have Pete gassing people up on how that idea is for shit and won't work.

I wish you all the best.

 

There's another note I want to address; regarding S2000 owners in the community versus non-owners.

I'm not against non-owners being in the community. I never was.

Before he was a non-owner, Pete had this very sentiment and very tactlessly showed it at meets and what not (namely to Joeking, but still, he had it).

I have been very spiteful and did this to make sure he was aware of his hypocrisy.

If I truly believed in this, I wouldn't support Garrison coming down to WTD '10 and making sure he had a place to lay his head. I wouldn't have hosted all the non-S2000 owners at past UBABs.

For those that think negatively of me, all I ask is to ask yourselves if you've taken any time to get to know me, or are you going by what Pete's telling you.

In all sincerity, I've been nothing but inviting to owners to share my parts, my knowledge, my time, and even in labor working on others' S2000's just for the general commraderie.

I really hate that I've gotten distrustful of owners due to Pete and being stolen from at last year's KBAB. I haven't gotten over it...the UMW community never had a cloud over it like this before.

 

Wow I go to Church for a couple hours and see what happens. Interesting enough the study was on forgiveness, and I am not lying about that.

I actually did like Harry's commits and thought Zgradis had some good ideas. Most actually except for meeting weekly, that may be difficult for CO's to do.

As you see Pete and Urmil don't see eye to eye on some things. Lot's been said and I am hoping Pete does not respond to Urmil's long respond, non is needed.
I am asking for a truce on these two and both of there opinions on each other and for what they did or did not do.

This is to any new or newer people still reading.
We can and will go forward from here. So again I ask for a discussion as to what and how we can go on from here.

Keith