I'm replacing my OEM S02's after 17k miles and have narrowed it down to:

- Toyo Proxes RA-1
- Michelin Pilot Sport Cup

Specs would be identical, mounted on Regamaster evo's:
F: 225/50 16 - 7" width
R: 245/45 16 - 8" width

Requirements:
- Above all - best street performance
- Want to get 10,000 miles of (relatively demanding) street use.
- I don't carry a spare
- I don't put a lot of miles on my car (17k miles in 3 years so far)
- I have a set of Hoosier A3S03 on the stock rims for AutoX, so nothing required in this dept.
- I may perhaps do some track time (but this would be few and far between, since there is nothing easy to get to where I

live)
- Cost seems to be about $258 more for the Michelin's (set of 4), so that's pretty much a wash (ie. not a factor)
- I mostly leave the car parked when its forecasting rain (not because I don't like driving in the rain, but I'm lazy and don't like having to wash the car all the time)

Thanks!

 

Toyo Proxes RA-1 are nice tires, I have no experience with the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups.

If you want 10,000 miles of street driving and both of your options are soft R-compound track tires I'm a bit confused. These two options are not significantly different than the Hoosier A3S03s you have for autox events. It seems crazy to me to run an R-compound track tire on the street. IMHO.

 

I have run both tires. I'm currently running the MPSCs as a street tire and i must say i'm very impressed with the performance i'm getting out of them. When new and unshaved the RA1s can be very squirrely and will take some time to get used to with no such problem with the cups. Both tires will give you lots of milage but it appears that the cups will outlast the RA1s considerably. I currently have about 6K mile on the cups with very little apparent wear. I have yet to try the cups in the rain and my guess, just by looking a tread pattern, is that the RA1s will out perform the cups.

Hope that helps.

 

I would have to completely disagree with you on this. I would say the both the RA1s and Cups ARE signifacntly different than the A3So3s. They are no where near as soft as the hoosier plus they are steel belted. I would never expect a hoosier to last as long as a RA1 or MPSC let alone a soft A3S03.

Its been my experience that both the RA1s and the MPSCs will give you better performance and last as long or longer than the stock S02s and i wouldnt say that about other r-comps that i've run.

 

There is no substitute for experience, and I thank you for sharing your thoughts David. Do you drive "relatively aggressively" on the street?

I failed to mention (but its in my sig) that I'm running Mugen CO's (~1" drop) and the larger Front Sway bar as well . . . the 225F/245R setup on the AutoX circuits seems very well balanced for my driving style thus far.

One other question - Hoosier doesn't recommend running inordinate amounts of neg camber (I think I have about -1.5 R and -2.25 F) . . . would either tire perform well on the street with these specs?

Not sure if any of the above factors into the equations at all.

---------------------------------------------
Advantages So Far:
Michelin:
- Less Squirrely
- Potential for longer overall life (Less $$ in the long run)
- Better Performance than OEM

Toyo
- Less Expensive (In the short run)
- Perhaps better wet weather performance
- Better Performance than OEM

 

Jahwerx,

I tend to drive very aggressively on the street, that was one of the big reasons for me switching to r-comps for street driving. But in all honesty tho i dont drive as agressively as i used to on the street as i tend to save it for the track nowadays, but i do have my favorite backroads that i use to test and tune the car with.

You'll likely end up with some wheel rub with your 1" drop, how much will likely depend on how stiff you run your suspension. The rubbing wont likely occur on the outer edges like you might think but will occur with the top of the tire rubbing against the plastic liner. There is an area in each front wheel well thats sticks down from the top of the well and its this that will rub. I've rubed mine down past the plastic, luckily the metal underneath it is smoothly curved and i dont worry about anymore.

One more important point about the above rubbing comments... They are based on using the stock rims with the mentioned tires. I dont know the offsets of the EVOs but chances are they arent as high as the stock rims. That combined with the 1" drop and you'll likely have more rubbing then you'd be comfortable with. Keep in mind that i could easily get the stock setup to rub in the twisty mountain roads i typicaly drive in. YMMV.

My alignment setting are dialed in for track use and i live with how that affects street wear, and i'm suprised at just how well the Cups hold up to it. Sure i have the expected higher wear rate on the insides of the fronts but the rears are near perfect. The specs i run are Front: -1.8* camber, 6* caster and 0.0 toe and for the rear: -2.6* camber and 0.03" toe in.

I dont know what qualifies as inordinate camber but i have my rear camber adjusted based on the wear of the 275 hoosiers i run at the track and they wear very evenly.

EGADS! sorry for the long post... I'll stop now

 

Never actually used the RA1s, but my PSCs only lasted 4 or 5k (with a couple track days thrown in) if memory serves. It often doesn't.

Ended up replacing the Michelins before a drive to Kansas not because of wear but because of 2 nails in the left rear. Be careful of road debris. With no track days or autocrosses I suppose they'd last 10k. Like Dave, the inside of my fronts wore out quicker than any other part of the tire; having them flipped on the rims helped.

Frankly I'd recommend sticking with OEM S-02s for the street - mine seemed to last 20k+ front and rear, and provide a decent amount of stick. If you're doing things that require grip beyond the S02s on the street you're going too fast. But then again I am something of a hypocrit, having had nothing but R comps on my car for most all of 2002. It's fun embarrasing everyone on on/offramps.

My near-term plan is to have a set of JDM rims with A3S03s for autocross, a set of stock rims with Victoracers for the track, and a third set with S02s for the street.

The Michelins will serve you well but Christ they're expensive. You might want to try the Yokohama A032R as a starter street R-comp tire - it can handle a little rain at least.

My fender liners are toast, having run nothing but stock sized rims and springs. It just happens.

And .03" toe-in? Geez Dave!

 

I haven't tried the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup, but I used Toyo RA-1s as my summer street and track tire. This was on 17" CE28Ns, 235/45 and 255/40. When new the RA-1s felt fine on the street, but were a bit squirmy and overheated on the track; they were fine in the rain. The 235 width up front does rub some against the plastic fender liner on full suspension travel, but I now have the liner tucked above the metal. After some of the tread was gone I really liked the feel; very stable and consistent through track sessions. I also like the feel on the street. Now I have about 9000 miles on them with 8 track days. The tread is pretty much gone, so I won't drive them in the rainy months, but I believe they have quite a bit of dry street and track miles left in them. The right sides are more worn down than the lefts from all the counter-clockwise tracks I've run, so I will flip them on the wheels.

Hope that helps,

Ted

 

Dave,

Regarding the rubbing situation . . . I can absolutely get the fronts to rub today (OEM rubber on OEM wheels) with my current setup - I don't run the suspension overly firm, and I've noticed the plastic wear as mentioned. Its relatively rare and I'm not too concerned as it is just "plastic" at this point. There are specific turns where i can "make this happen", by predominatly loading up the one corner.

The offsets for the regamasters are 45 mm (both front and rear, compared to 55 mm, 65 mm OEM on a 1/2" more narrow wheel) which may help alleviate the front rubbing a bit since it will effectively move the tire slightly more to the outside. I may dial in a little less camber up there too.

In the rear, rather than "rolling" the fender lip, I've actually ground it down to get the Hoosiers to work on the regamasters. I was messing with the camber, and could have gotten the rears to fit w/o modifying the sheet metal, but I think I was at 4 degrees or something crazy like that. At this time I have no issues at all in the rear.

Jason,

Extracting dry performance is the key here in my mind. If I can get more stick and more grins with a relatively easy change, I think I'll do it.

And to your point "And .03" toe-in?" I can perhaps understand why Dave could get 10k miles on the set. Just about "no toe" may also magnify the squirrely effect too? Just thinking out loud. I'll have to take a gander at my last alignment settings to see where my toe stands today and maybe dial it closer to 0 for sake of rubber longevity.

Ted,

Thanks for the feedback - almost seems like either option is going to work nicely. (BTW, Get your stereo Head Unit all set up?)

 

I wouldnt go with zero toe in the rear... Can you say "Spookey". Thats the word i'd use to describe my track experience with it set there. With it at .03 the car rotates very nicely for me but the loose feeling it gives to the rear will take some getting used to and i'm convinced its a faster setup.

The last couple of track days i've been running a softer '02 rear swaybar to see if it would help reduce rear inboard lift. I can say now that it does indeed do this but i need to bump up the rear spring rate to compensate for this in the long run as this combo with the low rear toe is a bit of a handfull, though not nearly as much of a handfull as zero rear toe