OEM us Alignment spec for ap1?
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 125
From: Pawtucket, RI
6mm toe is WAY too much IMO. That's .55deg total. In my experience, there's nothing these cars hate more than too much rear toe. It actually makes the car more twitchy in a straight line. Any little bump or disturbance and the back end moves around on you. It also gives too much understeer when you WANT the car to turn.
Rear tire wear is abysmal at that amount of toe. And fuel mileage suffers as well. And top speed!
When I first started tracking the S, I made the mistake of running max spec rear toe in a misguided attempt to "correct" a non-problem (infamous DRASTIC overstatement of importance of tire tread width stagger, see obsolete and counterproductive stickie at the top of this forum). The car handled nonlinearly, spooky, and wore rear tires like MAD. When I dialed down the rear toe in a desperate attempt to get decent miles out of the rears, suddenly the car behaved mostly normally. LESS twitchy and MORE stable in a straight line, while also more responsive (in a good way) at turn-in.
Run .2 - .3 degrees total rear toe (.087" - .131" total), half that per side, more than that is no good for anything.
Rear tire wear is abysmal at that amount of toe. And fuel mileage suffers as well. And top speed!
When I first started tracking the S, I made the mistake of running max spec rear toe in a misguided attempt to "correct" a non-problem (infamous DRASTIC overstatement of importance of tire tread width stagger, see obsolete and counterproductive stickie at the top of this forum). The car handled nonlinearly, spooky, and wore rear tires like MAD. When I dialed down the rear toe in a desperate attempt to get decent miles out of the rears, suddenly the car behaved mostly normally. LESS twitchy and MORE stable in a straight line, while also more responsive (in a good way) at turn-in.
Run .2 - .3 degrees total rear toe (.087" - .131" total), half that per side, more than that is no good for anything.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 125
From: Pawtucket, RI
Camber spec above is reasonable (-.5deg front, -1.5 rear), you can go with a lot more for better handling without too drastically reducing tire life. For the street only, I'd probably go -1 front -2 rear. For street/track/autoX, max you can get for a stock car (usually not able to get more than -1.5 front, -2.5 rear stock).
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Search for UK alignment, if you want something that plants the rear better. You do tend to get some camber/toe wear on the rear, but it's so much more stable IMO. I'm running it on my AP1 with 2004 wheels and 215 up front with 255 in the rear, lowered on Konis with stock springs. When I first bought the car, it was completely stock with 2002 wheels and that rear used to kick out on me. Granted my set up now is pretty different, but I've tracked the car and it sticks really good. Tires were Yoko EX100 and moved to Bridgestone RE050. Just recently put some Bridgestone RE01.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 125
From: Pawtucket, RI
Personally not a fan of UK rear toe specs. 40', or .67deg total rear toe is excessive. Nervous, twitchy, nonlinear handling, tremendously increased tire wear, worse mileage. That much rear toe is good for nothing, bad for everything.
I tried running a lot of rear toe (.64deg total) back when I started tracking the S, thinking that would be the conservative/understeery setup. I found the handling of the S on track to be a bit spooky and weird. Handling was much less linear than my much faster 240Z. Then after going through two sets of rear tires over four events, I *had* to do something to get more tire life, so reluctantly I reduced the rear toe. I asked for .15deg per side, and got .15deg TOTAL. I was a bit worried that the car would be *seriously* evil-handling with that little rear toe, but lo and behold, I found that the car behaved more predictably and linearly, while also giving better responsiveness at turn-in and eagerness to reach the apex.
Years later, out of the blue the car started handling like crap. At mont Tremblant in the wet, the car was all over the place down the straights, but would NOT turn in to save its (or my) life. Even driving home in the pouring rain, i had to slow way down relative to traffic, the car was just all over the place.
Come to find out, the alignment had gone wonky (presumably the shop hadn't tightened the adjustment bolts sufficiently), and I had over a degree of rear toe-in (.55/.50)
Proper alignment with way less rear toe cured it of its evil-handling ways, yet again.
Too much rear toe, particularly on the AP1, SUCKS. And the UK alignment calls for entirely too much rear toe.
.2 - .3 degrees total is what I recommend, and personally I wouldn't have qualms about trying .1deg total.
I tried running a lot of rear toe (.64deg total) back when I started tracking the S, thinking that would be the conservative/understeery setup. I found the handling of the S on track to be a bit spooky and weird. Handling was much less linear than my much faster 240Z. Then after going through two sets of rear tires over four events, I *had* to do something to get more tire life, so reluctantly I reduced the rear toe. I asked for .15deg per side, and got .15deg TOTAL. I was a bit worried that the car would be *seriously* evil-handling with that little rear toe, but lo and behold, I found that the car behaved more predictably and linearly, while also giving better responsiveness at turn-in and eagerness to reach the apex.
Years later, out of the blue the car started handling like crap. At mont Tremblant in the wet, the car was all over the place down the straights, but would NOT turn in to save its (or my) life. Even driving home in the pouring rain, i had to slow way down relative to traffic, the car was just all over the place.
Come to find out, the alignment had gone wonky (presumably the shop hadn't tightened the adjustment bolts sufficiently), and I had over a degree of rear toe-in (.55/.50)
Proper alignment with way less rear toe cured it of its evil-handling ways, yet again.
Too much rear toe, particularly on the AP1, SUCKS. And the UK alignment calls for entirely too much rear toe.
.2 - .3 degrees total is what I recommend, and personally I wouldn't have qualms about trying .1deg total.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,925
Likes: 8
From: Largo, FL
sorry to threadjack...but if im running stock wheels with my car lowered, and i want factory alignment settings, what toe should i ask for in the rear? i want the least amount of tire wear as possible.
for the fronts ill go with the u.k. alignment spec:
camber: -1
toe: as close to 0 as possible
rears:
camber: -2
toe: ?
for the fronts ill go with the u.k. alignment spec:
camber: -1
toe: as close to 0 as possible
rears:
camber: -2
toe: ?