Hi all! Okay, first off I have a little story. I went over to Hibdon's the other day to swap the fronts and rears from left to right vice versa because I knew that the insides of my tires were getting very worn down (I have an '02 S, stock wheels, stock suspension). After about thirty minutes of waiting they come back to tell me they cannot swap them over because the tread is worn down to 2/32nd's on the inside. I told them that that is just camber wear and that if they swapped them that it would even out the wear because the fully treaded outside of the tire would be on the inside. After hearing this the service tech kept saying that will not work and rambling on about the inside tread. I found it to be quite ridiculous that they would rather send me on my way with the dangerous setup that they're telling me I have rather than just accepting my money and using some common sense to see that the other setup is safer even though it is only a temporary fix.

Okay so now that I'm through ranting on to the original question! Which tire do you guys think is the best compromise between tread wear and performance?
I am looking to get around 15-20k miles out of the set of tires including let's say 12 autocross sessions (1 per month) with exceptional dry grip as well as being safe in the wet. I daily drive my S so if the tire is very noisy please tell me ( it isn't that big of a deal to me, but I'd still like to know). I'm a college student so I have very little to spend and want to keep it under $130 a tire if possible. Just let me know if I need to be a little more relaxed with my requirements, I just wanted to let you all know what I was looking for instead of being "that guy" and posting a vague question and expecting someone to somehow come up with the right answer.

Also I had one other question. Is it possible to squeeze a 225/50/16 tire on the stock ap1 front wheels?

 

Tread down to 2/32 = tire is done as far as any reputable shop is concerned. Apply the money you wanted to spend on flipping them to new tires, immediately.

Conti ExtremeContact DW will probably give you the best compromise between wet grip, dry grip, and longevity (340 treadwear rating). Somewhat squishy sidewalls, though. $107 at Tire RAck
Hankook RS-3s at the back of my car are at ~15k miles and look to be good for at least 20k total. More dry grip, less wet grip and life (140 tw rating)vs. the Conti. $106
Hankook V12 evo K110, another good choice if not outstanding, a little cheaper, $97

You can run 225/50-16 on 6.5" wide AP1 fronts.

All of the info above and more (survey results, objective test results) is available to you at the Tire Rack site, btw.


What are your alignment settings, toe in particular? Huge impact on life.

 

I know it wasn't too smart of me, but I was just wanting to make these tires last as long as possible. And since I drive the car only once a week I could've probably made them last until the summer, but I'm just gonna bite the bullet and get new tires.
How do your RS-3's hold up in the cold? I've read that they don't have much grip below 50 degrees.

Will running the 225's on the front be counterproductive? I just don't know if the wider tire will affect the sidewall flex or cause problems. And how wide can I go on the rears?

And for alignment, I haven't had an alignment done since I bought the car, but I'm going to take it in to a reputable shop soon and get that sorted out so that these tires will last as long as possible.

 

RS-3s lasting for 20k miles in the back is news to me. I didn't think these things got very good treadlife - especially with aggressive driving.

 

Cold/wet grip isn't that great, but not horrible in my experience (I only just swapped over to winter tires last weekend).

Not a big deal. Smidge more oversteer, but should be good for autoX.

For the best street tires, 225/50-16 is your only choice.

don't go with stock spec (a very wide range, most of which sucks).
For autoX/street, stock suspension, I'd go with max available camber, zero front toe (maybe a smidge toe-out?), 0.2 degrees *total* rear toe. this will GREATLY improve rear tire life, too, btw.

 

Why would there be more oversteer from changing the fronts to wider tires?
Will that little bit of positive toe help decrease oversteer? And how will that the positive toe increase tire life?
Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it.

 

More grip up front, more oversteer. IMO, nothing to worry about, really. Change in handling balance with 10% change in tire width stagger isn't that big a deal.

The 0.2 degrees total toe-in in back I suggest is a lot less than the AP1 spec range of 0.32deg to 0.64deg.
0.2deg is enough. Too much rear toe (>0.4 if you ask me) results in all manner of evil, including: greatly reduced tire life, twitchiness/nonlinearity of handling over bumps or in traction-challenged conditions, reduced turn-in response.

Again, 0.2deg total is somewhat *less* than the minimum spec rear toe. You could run 0.1 total or even zero if you want, I've only run as little as 0.15 without any issues so I hesitate to recommend less than that.

 

i understand your frustration with the tire shop not swapping your tires but look at it from their point of view.

2/32 is the legal limit in which your required to get new tires by law. you can get a fix-it ticket for it.

if the shop were to swap tires for you @ 2/32 and you were to get into an accident you could potentially sue them and win because they broke the law.

why would any shop risk that for 20-40 bucks?

a lot of people get upset and think a tire shop is just trying to up-sell them on a new set of tires but really they are just protecting themselves.

try going to a mom and pop tire shop if you really want them switched.

 

Ohh okay. I didn't know the stock specs for the ap1 so I didn't realize that they had so much toe to begin with.
Did you notice more oversteer when you reduced the amount of toe? Also how long do you think it should take a shop to align everything? Because I contacted the shop I'm going to take the S to and they said its $90 an hour for alignment and I don't want to get taken advantage of on the labor charges.

 

Yeah that is true. I realized that, but I was just frustrated at the moment. I'm over it now though.