AWay

I've been thinking of adding a square setup to my otherwise stock 04 S2000 for road course track duty. Likely a set of C3's with either RS-3's, Star Specs, or RE-11's. (haven't decided yet on the best tire) My question was, this must surely add a great deal of additional front end grip to the car and was wondering if any other modifications are necessary to accomodate that grip. A front and/or rear sway bar? Does the square setup make the car much more prone to oversteer or relatively neutral?

I was just hoping to gain a little education on the merits of the square setup and if it's a worthwhile upgrade over just mounting sticky tires on my stock wheels. My only experience with an S2000 on track in the past was on the stock wheels and stock RE050 tires, which aren't the best on track. To be honest I was still VERY impressed with the car and had an amazing time! I could notice the understeer though in a few sections of the track.

FWIW, I have Carbotech XP10/8's and Motul fluid. The only other 'track' modification I'd planned on doing was a set of tires/wheels.

Look forward to learning.

Y0N1P8T5R1F5A4T

I'm sorta on the same boat as you so I would like to see what the autox/track guru's are going to say.

All I can give you is that understeer definitely decreases.

I am using a used set of 255/40/17 R-S3's that are great IMO on the autox. I love how they respond when they are at the precise proper psi. All those tires are very competitive. I have RE-11's that I did use for two autox's. They're great for both DD and events. The RE-11's are great in the rain if you plan on DD them. I have no experience with the R-S3's in the rain and I have heard a lot of things about them in the wet. The review on the R-S3's from TireRack are poor in the rain.

I got a great deal on a square set of R-S3's so thats why I'm using them while my RE-11's are bagged up in my garage temporary. I have no experience with the Star Specs though.

AWay

I've heard the RS-3's are a pretty loud tire. If I left the square setup on for the street I'm not sure I'd enjoy even more noise from the car. It's not exactly the first word in refinement as it is! I ran RE-11's on my last car both street and track and they are phenomenal. Nothing but good things to say. Only downside is the cost. Probably another $300 on top of the RS-3's.

Running stock tire sizes in RE-11's would surely improve grip over the RE050's but I'm just wondering how much in terms of grip/lap time I'm leaving on the table by not doing the square setup. This is specific to road courses in my instance as I don't auto-x at all.

spdracerut

Read this article as it exactly address your questions:
http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...il-cooler.aspx

AWay

I didn't find a lot of details in that article regarding staggered/non-staggered. Is there anyone who has tracked in both configurations who might be able to comment on the difference in the car's handling?

I will admit there is appeal to simply fitting RE-11's on my stock wheels. (Not having to purchase an additional set of aftermarket wheels and then store the stock wheels) However, if I am missing out on a completely different handling car with the non-staggered setup then it would be worth the investment to me.

PureFunction

Most people run a stiffer front sway bar to deal with the added oversteer. Some also run stiffer spring rates up front.

More grip is more grip and thats always going to be good. You just have to fix it so your car isnt so tail happy.

MMisencik157

Many people will tell you you need to put a larger front sway or disconnect the rear or the car will be way too tail happy. About a year and a half ago I picked up a set of 17x9 tr c3s and with 255 ecsta xs all around and I just threw them on my car and hit the track. The car felt great! Did it feel optimized? No, but it felt pretty balanced to me and it was better that it was with the stock staggered wheels and 215/245 star specs. There is much more front grip and the car will oversteer at the limit but since you are expecting it to oversteer when pushed too far, you're ready to catch it. Braking performance is improved dramatically with 255s up front, you are able to go deeper into the corner and slow much quicker. As for tires the RS3 will be the fastest out of the bunch while the re11 are the most refined. I wouldn't worry about the rs3 being too loud since it will be a marginal difference and the noise from the rest of the car should mask the tires anyways. Go with whatever is cheapest (rs3) and worse case scenario you don't like them for some odd reason and you get something different next time.

spdracerut

I'm confused.... what did you not understand?

"The last track outing for the S2000 showed a few deficiencies still existed in the setup. The most problematic from a reliability standpoint was the scorching oil temperature. From a speed standpoint, the car was still very loose (last track update). Going back to the beginning of the project, you'll remember that we switched the tire sizing from a stock staggered setup (215 widths up front, 245 on the rear) to an even, or non-staggered, setup utilizing 245 width tires front and rear (Part I).

In bold, it says the car was loose going from the stock staggered steup to the square/non-staggered setup. Also notice 'Part I' was linked to read about the reasons for going non-staggered.

"In anticipation of the increased front grip with the wider front tires on the S2000, we added a stiffer Whiteline front sway bar and removed the rear bar (Part II). As I've learned the car over time and started pushing harder and harder (my previous cars were FWD and AWD), I hit the limit of grip and determined I needed more setup adjustment to address the oversteer tendencies.

The next logical components to change were the front springs. The KW Clubsports were designed for a stock S2000 using standard tire sizing, not for cars running a non-staggered setup. After researching what many other track-only S2000s were running for spring rates, I decided to increase the original KW Clubsports spring rate of 100N/mm to 120N/mm. "

In bold, changes initially made to try to address the added width and grip of the front tires.

So...... what else were you looking for? We can try to answer if you have any other questions more clearly stated.

AWay

I did read that, I guess I was just looking for some more objective opinions. Those articles are but one persons experience and, if I read correctly elsewhere on these forums, the driver isn't necessarily that experienced. It does sound like at the very least an uprated front sway bar is needed and perhaps disconnecting the rear when using a non-staggered setup.

At this point I'm more trying to make the decision between 225/245 staggered and a non-staggered setup. I do appreciate all the comments and help though, and apologies for my naivety on the subject. I'd just rather get it right the first go around rather than experiment a few times. Thank you again!

spdracerut

Read this thread:
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/868...y+spring+rates

Almost everyone in it is running a square setup.