Hub Centric Rings?
12-21-2010, 11:28 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hub Centric Rings?
I'm just curious if I need to run Hub Centric Rings on my AP1? I just purchased a set of RPF1s.
Heres the story, I had a set of TSW on the car when I purchased it. About a month after I had the car the rear passenger side wheel broke 2 studs. Got it fixed, and now the same thing happened on the rear driver side wheel not sure what is going on. I dont drive the car hard at all, I baby it mostly when I drive. The car has been sitting for about 3 months. About to fix everything again just wondering if I need the rings. Please give me some info ASAP!
Heres the story, I had a set of TSW on the car when I purchased it. About a month after I had the car the rear passenger side wheel broke 2 studs. Got it fixed, and now the same thing happened on the rear driver side wheel not sure what is going on. I dont drive the car hard at all, I baby it mostly when I drive. The car has been sitting for about 3 months. About to fix everything again just wondering if I need the rings. Please give me some info ASAP!
12-21-2010, 12:36 PM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hampton Roads
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've been thinking about getting TSW wheels. Which model did you have?
As far as Hub Centric Rings...Having them is the best bet as the wheel has better support, but I haven't read too many horror stories of using lug centrics.
As far as Hub Centric Rings...Having them is the best bet as the wheel has better support, but I haven't read too many horror stories of using lug centrics.
12-21-2010, 12:57 PM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm going to disagree and say that hub-centric rings are not going to improve the performance of the wheel-to-hub interface. I also apologize for the long-winded response.
In my opinion, hub-centric rings are more about ease of installation. The wheel-to-hub interface is a friction critical fastened joint. In other words, we rely on the friction between the wheel and the hub to constrain the motion of the wheel with respect to the hub. The friction load is developed by the clamp force of the studs, which are only designed to be loaded in tension. Assuming this friction constraint is not exceeded, the studs will only be loaded in tension. If there is motion between the wheel and hub, then you could see bending or shear loads in the studs. The likelihood of this happening is small, assuming your lug torque is correct.
When installing a wheel, the final mounting location will be dictated by how the lugs seat in the wheel countersinks. If this position is in conflict with the position set by a hub-centric ring, you'll impart non axial loading into the studs. If this non axial loading is high enough, it could cause the studs to be over stressed and even cause them to fail. However, hub-centric rings are not likely to cause fitment issues...just an example of what could happen if there was a dimensional issue.
Over torquing is probably the single largest failure mode of wheel studs. Tight is good, so tighter must be better, right?! Wrong. It's also no safe to lubricate the threads of a wheel stud or lug. Doing so will decrease the friction between the stud/lug which will result in substantially greater stud tensile loads. It's not uncommon to almost double the load in a fastener by lubricating the threads. Also, how often do you see shops using impact wrenches to install lugs and not check to see whether they've exceeded the manufacturer lug torque spec? It's probably more common than you'd expect...
My point is, if you're not the first/only owner of your car and have let someone else torque your lugs, you don't know whether the studs have been over stressed or not. Breaking of studs is a sign that something happened in the past that caused them to fail. I personally wouldn't point my finger at the lack of hub-centric rings.
In my opinion, hub-centric rings are more about ease of installation. The wheel-to-hub interface is a friction critical fastened joint. In other words, we rely on the friction between the wheel and the hub to constrain the motion of the wheel with respect to the hub. The friction load is developed by the clamp force of the studs, which are only designed to be loaded in tension. Assuming this friction constraint is not exceeded, the studs will only be loaded in tension. If there is motion between the wheel and hub, then you could see bending or shear loads in the studs. The likelihood of this happening is small, assuming your lug torque is correct.
When installing a wheel, the final mounting location will be dictated by how the lugs seat in the wheel countersinks. If this position is in conflict with the position set by a hub-centric ring, you'll impart non axial loading into the studs. If this non axial loading is high enough, it could cause the studs to be over stressed and even cause them to fail. However, hub-centric rings are not likely to cause fitment issues...just an example of what could happen if there was a dimensional issue.
Over torquing is probably the single largest failure mode of wheel studs. Tight is good, so tighter must be better, right?! Wrong. It's also no safe to lubricate the threads of a wheel stud or lug. Doing so will decrease the friction between the stud/lug which will result in substantially greater stud tensile loads. It's not uncommon to almost double the load in a fastener by lubricating the threads. Also, how often do you see shops using impact wrenches to install lugs and not check to see whether they've exceeded the manufacturer lug torque spec? It's probably more common than you'd expect...
My point is, if you're not the first/only owner of your car and have let someone else torque your lugs, you don't know whether the studs have been over stressed or not. Breaking of studs is a sign that something happened in the past that caused them to fail. I personally wouldn't point my finger at the lack of hub-centric rings.
12-21-2010, 07:49 PM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by menacejean,Dec 21 2010, 01:36 PM
I've been thinking about getting TSW wheels. Which model did you have?
As far as Hub Centric Rings...Having them is the best bet as the wheel has better support, but I haven't read too many horror stories of using lug centrics.
As far as Hub Centric Rings...Having them is the best bet as the wheel has better support, but I haven't read too many horror stories of using lug centrics.
12-21-2010, 07:50 PM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by nmrado,Dec 21 2010, 01:57 PM
I'm going to disagree and say that hub-centric rings are not going to improve the performance of the wheel-to-hub interface. I also apologize for the long-winded response.
In my opinion, hub-centric rings are more about ease of installation. The wheel-to-hub interface is a friction critical fastened joint. In other words, we rely on the friction between the wheel and the hub to constrain the motion of the wheel with respect to the hub. The friction load is developed by the clamp force of the studs, which are only designed to be loaded in tension. Assuming this friction constraint is not exceeded, the studs will only be loaded in tension. If there is motion between the wheel and hub, then you could see bending or shear loads in the studs. The likelihood of this happening is small, assuming your lug torque is correct.
When installing a wheel, the final mounting location will be dictated by how the lugs seat in the wheel countersinks. If this position is in conflict with the position set by a hub-centric ring, you'll impart non axial loading into the studs. If this non axial loading is high enough, it could cause the studs to be over stressed and even cause them to fail. However, hub-centric rings are not likely to cause fitment issues...just an example of what could happen if there was a dimensional issue.
Over torquing is probably the single largest failure mode of wheel studs. Tight is good, so tighter must be better, right?! Wrong. It's also no safe to lubricate the threads of a wheel stud or lug. Doing so will decrease the friction between the stud/lug which will result in substantially greater stud tensile loads. It's not uncommon to almost double the load in a fastener by lubricating the threads. Also, how often do you see shops using impact wrenches to install lugs and not check to see whether they've exceeded the manufacturer lug torque spec? It's probably more common than you'd expect...
My point is, if you're not the first/only owner of your car and have let someone else torque your lugs, you don't know whether they studs have been over stressed or not. Breaking of studs is a sign that something happened in the past that caused them to fail. I personally wouldn't point my finger at the lack of hub-centric rings.
In my opinion, hub-centric rings are more about ease of installation. The wheel-to-hub interface is a friction critical fastened joint. In other words, we rely on the friction between the wheel and the hub to constrain the motion of the wheel with respect to the hub. The friction load is developed by the clamp force of the studs, which are only designed to be loaded in tension. Assuming this friction constraint is not exceeded, the studs will only be loaded in tension. If there is motion between the wheel and hub, then you could see bending or shear loads in the studs. The likelihood of this happening is small, assuming your lug torque is correct.
When installing a wheel, the final mounting location will be dictated by how the lugs seat in the wheel countersinks. If this position is in conflict with the position set by a hub-centric ring, you'll impart non axial loading into the studs. If this non axial loading is high enough, it could cause the studs to be over stressed and even cause them to fail. However, hub-centric rings are not likely to cause fitment issues...just an example of what could happen if there was a dimensional issue.
Over torquing is probably the single largest failure mode of wheel studs. Tight is good, so tighter must be better, right?! Wrong. It's also no safe to lubricate the threads of a wheel stud or lug. Doing so will decrease the friction between the stud/lug which will result in substantially greater stud tensile loads. It's not uncommon to almost double the load in a fastener by lubricating the threads. Also, how often do you see shops using impact wrenches to install lugs and not check to see whether they've exceeded the manufacturer lug torque spec? It's probably more common than you'd expect...
My point is, if you're not the first/only owner of your car and have let someone else torque your lugs, you don't know whether they studs have been over stressed or not. Breaking of studs is a sign that something happened in the past that caused them to fail. I personally wouldn't point my finger at the lack of hub-centric rings.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post