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Misfiring Fun Times...

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Old May 12, 2014 | 12:11 PM
  #1  
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Default Misfiring Fun Times...

Since I know more detail is better, I'll back up and go over what has been happening the last few hundred miles.

134800 - CEL came on when I was downtown about a block away from the auto parts dealer. CEL has never come on in the last several thousand miles. Since I was literally a block away, I had them pull the code. Came back with P0302.

134850 - Got back home. Cleared CEL by pulling the circuit breaker.

134850 - Decided to pull the valve cover and check for cracked retainers. Please note that I have had this car over 40,000 miles now and have never over-revved it. I noticed a potentially sunk valve retainer. Ended up pulling the cams, etc to get a better look and my #7 valve on the intake side was nearly about to fall into the cylinder. I replaced all valve retainers/cotters with AP2. See This Thread

134850 - Put everything back together. Swapped #2 and #1 cylinder coil packs just to see if that the engine code came back, it would switch cylinders. Adjusted valves and triple checked each one. Adjusted everything to torque specs. Please note that I have done only two valve adjustments in my life - it could very well be I did something wrong and something is out of spec. However I followed all of Honda's HELM manual instructions to the T.

134850 - Fired up engine. Sounded just fine, had a couple of beers to celebrate. I noticed within about 2 minutes of me firing up the engine, the CEL came on. I went to grab a paper clip to pull the codes myself, but by the time I got back, the CEL disappeared. Not sure if this is related or not or if the sensors just hadn't had enough time to reset.

135000 - Honda gave me an oil change

135040 - CEL came back on again. This time I was about 50 miles away from the auto parts store, so I had to drive it longer.

135090 - Auto parts store pulled P0301, P0302, P0303 and the P1399 codes. I had them clear the codes again

135100 - Car is sitting in drive way. I sit here broken hearted at my computer screen. CEL did not come back on.

Now, I have a hard time believing that all of my coils are failing at the same time. I read the misfire thread on here and when I originally bought the car, I had it inspected and a compression test done. I also compression tested it myself when I got back home, and both times the results were with flying colors - 239 244 245 240. I don't have any reason to suspect these numbers have changed in the last 40,000 miles that I have owned the vehicle as I have never over-revved it and I am the only person who drives it.

As far as a leak-down test goes, when I had the air compressor hooked up for the retainer swap, naturally each cylinder leaked a little bit - they all seemed pretty consistent, but I didn't go to the extent of figuring out the exact numbers for each one.

Another side note - the ONLY two times the CEL came on was when the car was idling. It's not running rough at all, sounds exactly the same and runs exactly the same as it did when I originally bought it.

The threads on here about burnt/bent/scathed cylinders is making me nervous.

What do I do at this point?

Thanks all.
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Old May 12, 2014 | 12:35 PM
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Those compression numbers are from when you bought it 40K miles ago?

I would definitely do a compression check and just verify that your numbers are still the same after 40k miles. Atleast then you will know for sure. If all your numbers check out again, then you can move on to thinking about coil packs, injectors, ect.
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Old May 12, 2014 | 01:56 PM
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Alright, fresh off the presses:

#1: 240
#2: 236
#3: 240
#4: 236

With WOT and two bars of heat on the gauge.

Being that the golden number everyone seems to agree on as far as factory off-the-line compression goes is 240, I'd say that this engine at 135000 miles hitting those numbers means that it's doing pretty well internally? Everyone else on here who has misfire troubles related to bent valves, burnt valves, scathed pistons, etc. seems to pull much lower and much more varied compression numbers. Would this also help indicate that my valves are within the right tolerances? I know when my truck engine's valves are slightly too loose, I get very low compression numbers. Not sure if that is applicable on the s2k.

I did inspect each coil pack and three out of the four seemed like the boots that go over the spark plug were a little scorched. The spark plugs themselves seemed to have a little burn mark around the base of the seat too. Attached are some pictures - you'll have to zoom in pretty good since the marks are pretty hard to see. Each plug had very small trace amounts of oil (always have, no change there) and when I mean small amount, I mean like a couple of drips. Each spark plug had the right burn indication as well (they all look the same as the one pictured). No fouling other than the light pink color that indicates normal wear. Plugs are OEM NGK's and were replaced at 105000 miles. Also each plug had a very small trace amount of oil around the threads. Bottom line: every plug was exactly the same wear indications. Car goes through about 1 quart of oil every 1500 miles, and has been like that since I've owned it. I've read numerous threads on here that this amount is an acceptable loss, especially when VTEC'ing a lot.

Before I shell out $300 on new coils, I'd like a few confirmations that this is the #1 way to go at this point, or if there is anything else I should check. I looked over all the wires and saw no burn or melt marks. All in all this engine is extremely clean in the bay - the worst part about the wires going to the coil packs were slight cracking on the heat shielding around the wire. No melting or indications of bare wires.

What to do next? Also if Billman could chime in when given a chance, it would be appreciated as usual! If there's a way to test the coils to confirm, that would be cool too.

Thanks

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[attachment=58895:IMG_20140512_143557_764.jpg]
Attached Thumbnails Misfiring Fun Times...-img_20140512_143557_764.jpg   Misfiring Fun Times...-img_20140512_143827_575.jpg  
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Old May 12, 2014 | 03:44 PM
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Does the car drive funny when the CEL comes on?
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Old May 12, 2014 | 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Slowcrash_101
Does the car drive funny when the CEL comes on?
Besides the light popping up, there are zero indications of any other problems. It drives just like it always has.
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Old May 12, 2014 | 04:04 PM
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I would say dirty fuel injectors...
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Old May 12, 2014 | 06:55 PM
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You can tell the coils if you are consistently getting a misfire for one cylinder, and then swap coils. If your misfire code follows the coil then you can be pretty sure that is the issue.
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Old May 12, 2014 | 09:02 PM
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In the first post, I originally just had one misfire and I swapped them. After the swap I had 1-3 cylinder misfire codes.

I just drove from Bellingham to Seattle (90 miles). All freeway driving with very little idling. CEL has not come back.

Would it hurt to throw some techron fuel injector cleaner in there and see if it's as simple as dirty injectors?
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Old May 13, 2014 | 03:20 AM
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Do it. Can't hurt.

The valves were done on a cold engine, proper adjustment for intake and exhaust, while each valve - the camshaft at the proper orientation as in pointing up and out (relieving pressure. Plugs gapped?
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Old May 13, 2014 | 03:21 AM
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I vote for injectors as well.
Try something like taking them off and send them for cleaning (ultrasound clemaing and flow messurement) rather than just an aditive in the fuel
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