BlackTrax Performance Exclusive Partnership with Kingpin Machine on S2000 Spherical Suspension
01-11-2015, 09:13 AM
#41
We are in for the group buy, need a set of these on our shop car.
Looking forward to the better suspension motion, reduced bushing/bearing deflection and low maintenance bearings.
Looking forward to the better suspension motion, reduced bushing/bearing deflection and low maintenance bearings.
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01-11-2015, 12:34 PM
#42
This is Khiem, I own the MIQ S2000 project car. As a note, if you haven't been following my build, my car is now a fun weekend/track day car after having daily driven it for 3 years. I put my miles on my bicycle last year than the car. Regardless, my stock bushings here completely shot and going to the spherical setup made perfect sense for the use my car sees (typically get out once a week for a short fun drive, occasional canyon drive, and trackdays).
That said, I just tracked it this past weekend at Buttonwillow and I'll have an update soon. For the street driving aspect, the car is so much smoother driving on the crappy 405 freeway here getting up to the track compared to before. There are no harsh/step force inputs that I've noticed driving on some of the exceptionally crappy roads around here. Of course, my direct comparison is the car in its previous state with worn stock bushings. As for noises and such, granted my car is now fairly loud with the engine and diff mounts, but I don't hear a peep out of the spherical bearings driving on the street. Now that I have a lot more miles on the setup, the one instance I have noticed some noise is going in/out of driveways with step transitions. For example, the Shell gas station in Buttonwillow has craters and like a 1" step between the asphalt and driveway ramp. So there's a little noise going over that transition, but honestly part of it could be the coilovers/spring perches/pillowball mounts.
A little preview of the upcoming article, these sphericals are awesome going over the curbing at BW.
That said, I just tracked it this past weekend at Buttonwillow and I'll have an update soon. For the street driving aspect, the car is so much smoother driving on the crappy 405 freeway here getting up to the track compared to before. There are no harsh/step force inputs that I've noticed driving on some of the exceptionally crappy roads around here. Of course, my direct comparison is the car in its previous state with worn stock bushings. As for noises and such, granted my car is now fairly loud with the engine and diff mounts, but I don't hear a peep out of the spherical bearings driving on the street. Now that I have a lot more miles on the setup, the one instance I have noticed some noise is going in/out of driveways with step transitions. For example, the Shell gas station in Buttonwillow has craters and like a 1" step between the asphalt and driveway ramp. So there's a little noise going over that transition, but honestly part of it could be the coilovers/spring perches/pillowball mounts.
A little preview of the upcoming article, these sphericals are awesome going over the curbing at BW.
i was under the impression that sphericals joints are not good handling vertical shock loads, on a super smooth track they are awesome but supposedly driving on surface streets can ruin them very quickly. what is your take on this being that you are an ME?
I had been considering them, but I do drive to and from the track.
btw, with the repaving, I have watched the fast guys use less curbing....it's the new hawtness!!
01-12-2015, 07:32 PM
#43
hey khiem i met you @ button willow a few years ago
i was under the impression that sphericals joints are not good handling vertical shock loads, on a super smooth track they are awesome but supposedly driving on surface streets can ruin them very quickly. what is your take on this being that you are an ME?
I had been considering them, but I do drive to and from the track.
btw, with the repaving, I have watched the fast guys use less curbing....it's the new hawtness!!
i was under the impression that sphericals joints are not good handling vertical shock loads, on a super smooth track they are awesome but supposedly driving on surface streets can ruin them very quickly. what is your take on this being that you are an ME?
I had been considering them, but I do drive to and from the track.
btw, with the repaving, I have watched the fast guys use less curbing....it's the new hawtness!!
But also keep in mind that my S2k is now the weekend fun car/track day vehicle so it doesn't rack up much mileage (I only put on 1000 the last half year including the ~400 miles from the last track day weekend. Even if they do wear out, a big part of the job of converting the suspension to spherical bearings is the machining of the arms and pressing the sleeves in. So now if a bearing wears it, just the bearing has to be replaced which is relatively cheap.
01-21-2015, 01:17 PM
#44
We'd like to share with the community a few pictures of OEM bushings we just press out.
Vehicle: MY04 AP2 with 70k street driven miles 30k track miles.
Front Lower Control Arm Compliance Bushing:
Shock Bushing:
Upper Control Arm Bushing:
Rear Lower Control Arm Forward Bushing:
Vehicle: MY04 AP2 with 70k street driven miles 30k track miles.
Front Lower Control Arm Compliance Bushing:
Shock Bushing:
Upper Control Arm Bushing:
Rear Lower Control Arm Forward Bushing:
01-22-2015, 07:41 PM
#47
If those are just surface cracks, and not completely through, they are probably meaningless ... though scary enough to sell $3000 solid bushings.
Don't get me wrong. I think those bushings would be AWESOME on a car that spent > 50% of it's time on track. I am less convinced about their awesomeness on a street car, or the actual **need** for them to solve a problem with real effects.
Don't get me wrong. I think those bushings would be AWESOME on a car that spent > 50% of it's time on track. I am less convinced about their awesomeness on a street car, or the actual **need** for them to solve a problem with real effects.
01-27-2015, 10:25 AM
#50
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I just got a set and all I can say is WOW!
1. Comfort level
Going over lane changes on the freeway at speed have a sharper impact as expected when hitting the reflectors. Its the same feeling as having solid Front Control Arm Bushings on my E36 M3 DD. The impact should not have any detrimental effects on the bushings given that the right ones were chosen for proper loads that the vehicle should be experiencing. Low speed (20-40mph) dips and bumps feel like the OEM rubber bushing setup where its not jarring at all. Overall ride quality has not been compromised. Mid to high speed (anything over 40mph) is where the bushings really start to show themselves. Hitting bumps and dips on the freeway/local boulevard is smoother.
2. Suspension feel/communication
On a local boulevard that I am all too familiar with, these bushings really began to open my eyes when going more into the medium/high speed sections. Bumps and dips do not unsettle the car like they used to. Bushing bind can cause a dramatic effect in wheel rate as the suspension compresses turning the rubber bushing into additional spring rate. The understeer and oversteer tendencies can shift unpredictably, ride quality can suffer, and tire grip may be lost. With these spherical bushings, there is no more bushing bind. I clearly saw this when I put on one of the upper control arms and was able to move it through its ENTIRE range of motion. Try that with an OEM bushing arm! Not only does this free up the bushing bind but also can free up any suspension binding.
3. Steering feel/communication
During my trip up the local boulevard the steering feel has also drastically changed. Before with rubber bushings, you turn and know the car will turn but you don't really feel it. Now you can feel the tire scrubbing against the ground and feeling how much more slip angle can you feed in vs what the tire can take. During braking, you can feel the tires load up and the weight is shifted quickly but smoothly, not unsettling the car. On track, I imagine this would translate towards making driving at the limit easier or even being able to push the limit further do to the increased feedback you get.
Overall I recommend this product to somebody that has many miles on their car, street or track. I will update this post after I do my next track day towards the end of February.
1. Comfort level
Going over lane changes on the freeway at speed have a sharper impact as expected when hitting the reflectors. Its the same feeling as having solid Front Control Arm Bushings on my E36 M3 DD. The impact should not have any detrimental effects on the bushings given that the right ones were chosen for proper loads that the vehicle should be experiencing. Low speed (20-40mph) dips and bumps feel like the OEM rubber bushing setup where its not jarring at all. Overall ride quality has not been compromised. Mid to high speed (anything over 40mph) is where the bushings really start to show themselves. Hitting bumps and dips on the freeway/local boulevard is smoother.
2. Suspension feel/communication
On a local boulevard that I am all too familiar with, these bushings really began to open my eyes when going more into the medium/high speed sections. Bumps and dips do not unsettle the car like they used to. Bushing bind can cause a dramatic effect in wheel rate as the suspension compresses turning the rubber bushing into additional spring rate. The understeer and oversteer tendencies can shift unpredictably, ride quality can suffer, and tire grip may be lost. With these spherical bushings, there is no more bushing bind. I clearly saw this when I put on one of the upper control arms and was able to move it through its ENTIRE range of motion. Try that with an OEM bushing arm! Not only does this free up the bushing bind but also can free up any suspension binding.
3. Steering feel/communication
During my trip up the local boulevard the steering feel has also drastically changed. Before with rubber bushings, you turn and know the car will turn but you don't really feel it. Now you can feel the tire scrubbing against the ground and feeling how much more slip angle can you feed in vs what the tire can take. During braking, you can feel the tires load up and the weight is shifted quickly but smoothly, not unsettling the car. On track, I imagine this would translate towards making driving at the limit easier or even being able to push the limit further do to the increased feedback you get.
Overall I recommend this product to somebody that has many miles on their car, street or track. I will update this post after I do my next track day towards the end of February.