P-Tuning STR Class ECU / Dyno Tuning Event (Northern VA)
04-24-2012, 03:20 PM
#1
P-Tuning STR Class ECU / Dyno Tuning Event (Northern VA)
This thread has the following purposes:
(1) for Mid-Atlantic area drivers to discuss and tune their STR (SCCA autocross) class cars using either Greddy EManage software or Hondata Flashpro software,
(2) to setup an event at P-Tuning (www. ptuning.com) located in Manassas, VA in which many STR spec Honda S2000s will be tuned over the span of a few short days,
(3) to facilitate the comparison between users of EManage, FlashPro, and those who remain untuned but are STR legal and desire dyno testing,
(4) to facilitate discussion before tuning is performed so as to achieve synergy and the highest and best possible results for all STR spec cars in participation,
(5) to workout a scheduling and partial payment system between us and P-Tuning in which we can get all of the cars done over a short period of days to obtain testing under similar circumstances.
- payment will be something small such as $50 to retain a spot with the remainder due upon tuning. Details will be worked out.
Here is what is proposed:
Although I have a 2008 C/R and use Flashpro (e-tuned only s far), I have several friends who have pre-2006 S2000s who are restricted to Greddy EManage (such as Greddy Emanage Ultimate). The Greddy product is capable, but is generally considered more challenging to tune, and more esoteric than the rival Hondata Flashpro. There is no argument that there is a current disparity in development between Flashpro tuned and non-flashpro tuned S-2000s in STR. However, there is significant progress being made, and when tuned properly, people are achieving results under Greddy EManage that are equivalent to those under FlashPro. What is needed, however, is knowledge of the system and a competent tuner (rarer than one might think). Fortunately, P-Tuning is competent in tuning both formats, and is willing to provide us with a discount to setup our cars. I will be tuning my FlashPro C/R, and would like to use it as a baseline and comparison, on the same day, with cars on being tuned wih Greddy EManage. This can be done at P-Tuning.
Here is a little about P-Tuning: My link
The facility looks like this:
The reports look like this (not an STR S2000):
Here is a little about the specific tuner, Toan:
Toan, has been tuning eManage for over 5 years. He's also a certified GReddy eManage tuner. Toan has also tuned quite a number of S2K, both NA and FI
As for FlashPro, he has tuned a number of FlashPro S2K running the PTUNING turbo kit as well as some NA setup.
Objectives:
(a) to achieve for my pre-2006 S2000 brothers (and sisters) the results that the top STR drivers are achieving. I regard many of the people in this sister thread My link as the elite in STR tuning and development. I feel that we can use, build upon, and contribute to the ongoing development of S2000 STR ECU development.
(b) to obtain, with Greddy EManage and Flashpro results similar to those shown below, and possibly better, as a result of our collective contributions in addition to Toan and P-Tuning's experience:
© to provide an enjoyable experience in which everyone can state that their car is quantifiably more powerful, smoother, and more drivable via better VTEC crossovers, better air/fuel ratios, etc.
(d) To save participants money through discounts available through group prices (see below).
(e) To publish a comparison of all cars who consent to the release of the dyno results of their cars. This will be sortof a "fun" thing to see who makes the most power, and perhaps determine why.
Flashpro:
GREDDY:
The rates that we can get are as follows, and will take approximately three hours (without unexpected issues) to complete per car"
Standard Rate:
Our standard rate for tuning eManage and FlashPro:
$550 = eManage or FlashPro (NA setup)
Our Rate:
$450/ea. (STR legal cars only)- Notes:
(1) This rate is contingent on a minimum of 5 cars (which we virtually already have)
(2) For people seeking a dyno only of an existing tune, a special rate will also be available. This will be useful for comparison between the several cars.
Additional Comments:
- This thread is open to a STR relevant tuning discussion. Questions related to tuning, harnesses, etc should all be raised here, but preferably after reading this thread:My link which covers probably more questions than most of us will ever have (or at least me).
- For my NJ buddies, (the original 5) I am considering setting up a date where all cars can be tuned over two days in which my house can be used as a "crash pad" while we wait for the results, but depending on how this is organized from comments here, we may just turn it into a sort of STR S2000 meet.
- Because I study law, nothing would ever be complete without a disclaimer, so let's say something like representations of performance gains stated herein are neither express nor implied representations that increases in performance will occur. Individual results ay differ from the performance charts above. Engine tuning is at each owner's risk and neither this poster nor P-Tuning shall be held liable for representations made on this forum.
More importantly I am not responsible for increased heart rate, excitement, or physical ailments that may arise as a result of what in my car (on an e-tune alone) was a quite noticeable increase in torque and midrange power (guessing I picked up +20 hp and +20 ft-lbs on an E-tune alone).
########################################### LIST ################################################## ##############
FULL TUNE
NLINK720 (Noel)
2008 S2000 C/R 45,000 miles: Hondata FP (currently E-Tuned) / PLM Header / K&N FIPK / Berk 70m HFC / Greddy Ti-C Exhaust
NFRad (Rad)
2004 S2000 ~38,500 miles | K&N FIPK | Header(TBD) | Berk 70mm HFC | ChallengeUSA 76TA-S Exhaust | Greddy EMU
AYGE (Austin)
2001 S2000 69,000 miles: Greddy EMU / PLM Header / K&N FIPK / Berk 70m HFC / Ebay exhaust or OEM with turn down (TBD)
- can borrow my exhaust if you need-
Legion (John) 2003 Honda S2000 / Intake: K&N FIPK /Header: PLM / Berk HFC (built into exhaust) Exhaust: Berk with built in HFC / ECM: Stock (getting Greddy EMU / unsure when to install)
LEVIWTF (Daniel)
2003 Toyota MR2 Spider (STR car): Greddy EMU / [remainder missing]
DYNO ONLY
ARISTOI (Tony)
2004 Honda S2000 78,000 miles | 3" Modified K&N FIPK | PLM Header (Ceramic Coated) | Asura 3" HFC | HKS 75MM Single Exhaust | Greddy EMU (Giles Pretune)
ILUVEKETCHUP (Clyde)
[info missing]
S2thaKilla (Ricardo)
2004 Honda S2000 / HFC / FIPK / Exhaust: T1R-EM / [header =?]
IntegraR0064 (Jon)
2006 Honda S2000/ Flashpro E-Tuned / PLM Header (coated black?) / Greddy Ti-C (new version) / K&N FIPK / [missing remainder]
##################QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ############################
(1) Rad's question on suggestion between Giles EMU and Greddy EMU (see long form question below).
[answer pending. Comments received from others. Will post all together when answer received]
(2) Tony's question related to AP2 rev limiter at 8,500 on stock ECU, or is AP1 ECU needed. (what is max rpm on AP2 ECU under Greddy EMS?)
[Not sure, but will try]
3) What does Toan recommend as far as raising the rev limiter on an AP2? and if he recommends raising it then does he soften the limiter?
[Soft limiter not recommended because pulling timing too much can be harmful to engine]
FWIW I had mine softened on FlashPro, but it was simply through pulling ignition as it approached the 8,450 I have it set at via Flashpro. It creates an interesting power waterfall looking thing from about 8300 to 8500 rpm. I didn't have this at first, but engine felt like it liked the softer limit better (at the expense of less than full power at the extreme limiter).
4) Will Toan's tune be locked?
[No.] FWIW, I know that other tunes are not locked, but have not evaluated what the industry custom is on this subject. Still worth knowing. That's why this forum is beneficial to us all. Good questions...
5) Does P-Tuning have the Japanese Greddy version software that permits the rev limiter increase? (The USA version does not). This has been confirmed as true. See: https://www.s2ki.com/...post&p=19754200 and https://www.s2ki.com/...post&p=19850936
[P-Tuning is willing to use software, but Greddy 2.23 has bugs that need to be worked out.]
6) What is the complete nature of the tuning? Are part throttle, AFR, timing, limiter increase and softening and the like included?
[Part throttle to verify fuel trims are proper, but no extended part throttle tuning or "street tuning" AFR yes, timing yes, limiter increase if possible, limiter softening not recommended, but yes if possible]
(1) for Mid-Atlantic area drivers to discuss and tune their STR (SCCA autocross) class cars using either Greddy EManage software or Hondata Flashpro software,
(2) to setup an event at P-Tuning (www. ptuning.com) located in Manassas, VA in which many STR spec Honda S2000s will be tuned over the span of a few short days,
(3) to facilitate the comparison between users of EManage, FlashPro, and those who remain untuned but are STR legal and desire dyno testing,
(4) to facilitate discussion before tuning is performed so as to achieve synergy and the highest and best possible results for all STR spec cars in participation,
(5) to workout a scheduling and partial payment system between us and P-Tuning in which we can get all of the cars done over a short period of days to obtain testing under similar circumstances.
- payment will be something small such as $50 to retain a spot with the remainder due upon tuning. Details will be worked out.
Here is what is proposed:
Although I have a 2008 C/R and use Flashpro (e-tuned only s far), I have several friends who have pre-2006 S2000s who are restricted to Greddy EManage (such as Greddy Emanage Ultimate). The Greddy product is capable, but is generally considered more challenging to tune, and more esoteric than the rival Hondata Flashpro. There is no argument that there is a current disparity in development between Flashpro tuned and non-flashpro tuned S-2000s in STR. However, there is significant progress being made, and when tuned properly, people are achieving results under Greddy EManage that are equivalent to those under FlashPro. What is needed, however, is knowledge of the system and a competent tuner (rarer than one might think). Fortunately, P-Tuning is competent in tuning both formats, and is willing to provide us with a discount to setup our cars. I will be tuning my FlashPro C/R, and would like to use it as a baseline and comparison, on the same day, with cars on being tuned wih Greddy EManage. This can be done at P-Tuning.
Here is a little about P-Tuning: My link
The facility looks like this:
The reports look like this (not an STR S2000):
Here is a little about the specific tuner, Toan:
Toan, has been tuning eManage for over 5 years. He's also a certified GReddy eManage tuner. Toan has also tuned quite a number of S2K, both NA and FI
As for FlashPro, he has tuned a number of FlashPro S2K running the PTUNING turbo kit as well as some NA setup.
Objectives:
(a) to achieve for my pre-2006 S2000 brothers (and sisters) the results that the top STR drivers are achieving. I regard many of the people in this sister thread My link as the elite in STR tuning and development. I feel that we can use, build upon, and contribute to the ongoing development of S2000 STR ECU development.
(b) to obtain, with Greddy EManage and Flashpro results similar to those shown below, and possibly better, as a result of our collective contributions in addition to Toan and P-Tuning's experience:
© to provide an enjoyable experience in which everyone can state that their car is quantifiably more powerful, smoother, and more drivable via better VTEC crossovers, better air/fuel ratios, etc.
(d) To save participants money through discounts available through group prices (see below).
(e) To publish a comparison of all cars who consent to the release of the dyno results of their cars. This will be sortof a "fun" thing to see who makes the most power, and perhaps determine why.
Flashpro:
GREDDY:
The rates that we can get are as follows, and will take approximately three hours (without unexpected issues) to complete per car"
Standard Rate:
Our standard rate for tuning eManage and FlashPro:
$550 = eManage or FlashPro (NA setup)
Our Rate:
$450/ea. (STR legal cars only)- Notes:
(1) This rate is contingent on a minimum of 5 cars (which we virtually already have)
(2) For people seeking a dyno only of an existing tune, a special rate will also be available. This will be useful for comparison between the several cars.
Additional Comments:
- This thread is open to a STR relevant tuning discussion. Questions related to tuning, harnesses, etc should all be raised here, but preferably after reading this thread:My link which covers probably more questions than most of us will ever have (or at least me).
- For my NJ buddies, (the original 5) I am considering setting up a date where all cars can be tuned over two days in which my house can be used as a "crash pad" while we wait for the results, but depending on how this is organized from comments here, we may just turn it into a sort of STR S2000 meet.
- Because I study law, nothing would ever be complete without a disclaimer, so let's say something like representations of performance gains stated herein are neither express nor implied representations that increases in performance will occur. Individual results ay differ from the performance charts above. Engine tuning is at each owner's risk and neither this poster nor P-Tuning shall be held liable for representations made on this forum.
More importantly I am not responsible for increased heart rate, excitement, or physical ailments that may arise as a result of what in my car (on an e-tune alone) was a quite noticeable increase in torque and midrange power (guessing I picked up +20 hp and +20 ft-lbs on an E-tune alone).
########################################### LIST ################################################## ##############
FULL TUNE
NLINK720 (Noel)
2008 S2000 C/R 45,000 miles: Hondata FP (currently E-Tuned) / PLM Header / K&N FIPK / Berk 70m HFC / Greddy Ti-C Exhaust
NFRad (Rad)
2004 S2000 ~38,500 miles | K&N FIPK | Header(TBD) | Berk 70mm HFC | ChallengeUSA 76TA-S Exhaust | Greddy EMU
AYGE (Austin)
2001 S2000 69,000 miles: Greddy EMU / PLM Header / K&N FIPK / Berk 70m HFC / Ebay exhaust or OEM with turn down (TBD)
- can borrow my exhaust if you need-
Legion (John) 2003 Honda S2000 / Intake: K&N FIPK /Header: PLM / Berk HFC (built into exhaust) Exhaust: Berk with built in HFC / ECM: Stock (getting Greddy EMU / unsure when to install)
LEVIWTF (Daniel)
2003 Toyota MR2 Spider (STR car): Greddy EMU / [remainder missing]
DYNO ONLY
ARISTOI (Tony)
2004 Honda S2000 78,000 miles | 3" Modified K&N FIPK | PLM Header (Ceramic Coated) | Asura 3" HFC | HKS 75MM Single Exhaust | Greddy EMU (Giles Pretune)
ILUVEKETCHUP (Clyde)
[info missing]
S2thaKilla (Ricardo)
2004 Honda S2000 / HFC / FIPK / Exhaust: T1R-EM / [header =?]
IntegraR0064 (Jon)
2006 Honda S2000/ Flashpro E-Tuned / PLM Header (coated black?) / Greddy Ti-C (new version) / K&N FIPK / [missing remainder]
##################QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ############################
(1) Rad's question on suggestion between Giles EMU and Greddy EMU (see long form question below).
[answer pending. Comments received from others. Will post all together when answer received]
(2) Tony's question related to AP2 rev limiter at 8,500 on stock ECU, or is AP1 ECU needed. (what is max rpm on AP2 ECU under Greddy EMS?)
[Not sure, but will try]
3) What does Toan recommend as far as raising the rev limiter on an AP2? and if he recommends raising it then does he soften the limiter?
[Soft limiter not recommended because pulling timing too much can be harmful to engine]
FWIW I had mine softened on FlashPro, but it was simply through pulling ignition as it approached the 8,450 I have it set at via Flashpro. It creates an interesting power waterfall looking thing from about 8300 to 8500 rpm. I didn't have this at first, but engine felt like it liked the softer limit better (at the expense of less than full power at the extreme limiter).
4) Will Toan's tune be locked?
[No.] FWIW, I know that other tunes are not locked, but have not evaluated what the industry custom is on this subject. Still worth knowing. That's why this forum is beneficial to us all. Good questions...
5) Does P-Tuning have the Japanese Greddy version software that permits the rev limiter increase? (The USA version does not). This has been confirmed as true. See: https://www.s2ki.com/...post&p=19754200 and https://www.s2ki.com/...post&p=19850936
[P-Tuning is willing to use software, but Greddy 2.23 has bugs that need to be worked out.]
6) What is the complete nature of the tuning? Are part throttle, AFR, timing, limiter increase and softening and the like included?
[Part throttle to verify fuel trims are proper, but no extended part throttle tuning or "street tuning" AFR yes, timing yes, limiter increase if possible, limiter softening not recommended, but yes if possible]
04-24-2012, 03:45 PM
#4
This has to be STR cars only, but if your car fits, you are in. Stock cars qualify, as do these cars:
- Intake
- Header
- Exhaust (100 dB or less)
- High Flow Cat (no test pipes)
- FlashPro / Greddy EManage / No software
- Maybe a few other minor things that I am missing.
- Intake
- Header
- Exhaust (100 dB or less)
- High Flow Cat (no test pipes)
- FlashPro / Greddy EManage / No software
- Maybe a few other minor things that I am missing.
04-24-2012, 04:06 PM
#5
so this is at p-tuning in manassas?
Go ahead and get a dyno only price. It'd be fun to just hang out, and then get the car dynoed on the same dyno to make sure I'm not giving anything up compared to you (I will be etuned by Evans tuning, I'm partially there now I need to finish the process). So depending on if I can make it I might do that.
Go ahead and get a dyno only price. It'd be fun to just hang out, and then get the car dynoed on the same dyno to make sure I'm not giving anything up compared to you (I will be etuned by Evans tuning, I'm partially there now I need to finish the process). So depending on if I can make it I might do that.
04-24-2012, 04:31 PM
#6
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Wow Noel, this is really great for STR. I may have to switch my car over as soon as possible just to make this. At a minimum i would be willing to participate also as a dyno only. I have a Giles pretuned EMU for AP2 and would be willing to offer it up on my car or for any other AP2 to use to baseline dyno, to possibley learn from, or reverse engineer. I have a spare untuned EMU and may be down for the full tune if people are getting big numbers. Count me in!
2004 Honda S2000 78,000 miles | 3" Modified K&N FIPK | PLM Header (Ceramic Coated) | Asura 3" HFC | HKS 75MM Single Exhaust | Greddy EMU (Giles Pretune)
2004 Honda S2000 78,000 miles | 3" Modified K&N FIPK | PLM Header (Ceramic Coated) | Asura 3" HFC | HKS 75MM Single Exhaust | Greddy EMU (Giles Pretune)
04-24-2012, 04:34 PM
#7
so this is at p-tuning in manassas?
YES.
Go ahead and get a dyno only price. It'd be fun to just hang out, and then get the car dynoed on the same dyno to make sure I'm not giving anything up compared to you (I will be etuned by Evans tuning, I'm partially there now I need to finish the process). So depending on if I can make it I might do that.
YES.
Go ahead and get a dyno only price. It'd be fun to just hang out, and then get the car dynoed on the same dyno to make sure I'm not giving anything up compared to you (I will be etuned by Evans tuning, I'm partially there now I need to finish the process). So depending on if I can make it I might do that.
This is definitely open to people interested in doing a dyno only. I would like to limit this to STR legal cars only for comparison purposes (a FI 800 hp car isn't really comparable).
What we can do is for people desiring a dyno only, reply with "COUNT ME IN -- DYNO ONLY" and for people interested in the STR tune, reply "COUNT ME IN -- STR TUNE" and I will update the first post to reflect the tally. After a few days we can move to step two, which will be attempting to schedule this bad boy. Get a nice day, some BBQ and it might be worthwhile for other people interested in seeing what our STR cars look like. Between you and me Jon, Motons, Penskes, and Rad with JRZ RS Pros and all of our hardware makes for something to look at.
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04-24-2012, 04:36 PM
#8
"COUNT ME IN -- DYNO ONLY"
I'd like to see the difference between an Evans tuned STR car (hopefully mine - time permitting).
Edit: it would be great to schedule this on a weekend of a DC auto-x (tune sat / autox sun).
I'd like to see the difference between an Evans tuned STR car (hopefully mine - time permitting).
Edit: it would be great to schedule this on a weekend of a DC auto-x (tune sat / autox sun).
04-24-2012, 04:37 PM
#9
I will Tony (Aristoi the Greek Warrior). I am planning on doing my car as one of the first as well so we will know whether the Greddy guys are in the range or how much more we need to push their cars. This is great.
04-24-2012, 05:13 PM
#10
Originally Posted by nlink720' timestamp='1335311144' post='21639672
This has to be STR cars only, but if your car fits, you are in.
I'd like to see the difference between an Evans tuned STR car (hopefully mine - time permitting).
Edit: it would be great to schedule this on a weekend of a DC auto-x (tune sat / autox sun).
Also, i will update the front page with the status of each person's car if you provide it to me. Mine will be updated in about 1 minute as a sample.