Miike505

Hello, I've bought my car used from Ed Morse Honda in Riviera Beach, Florida in December of 2004. The car is certified used and had a little over 9k miles. Currently it has 37k miles. Last night as I was driving a blinking check engine light came on at a red light. The idle was extremely rough so I got it towed to the nearest Honda dealership. I got a call today telling me that the retainer clips on cylinder 1 where broken. They said this must have been caused by over reving the engine. This happened as I was driving aggressively, however I did not mis-shift or hit the rev limiter. The Honda dealership said it was from abusing it constantly in the past. Most of the mileage on this car is from cruising on the highway at around 75mph in 6th gear. I rarely drive it hard, and I've never mis-shifted. Also, in the past I was having problems with the car. Sometimes it would rev all the way up without vtec ever engaging. I've made past complaints about engine noises and this but the only result was a new map sensor. I called Honda Care to discuss this but Ed Morse Honda hadn't filed anything with them. How should I handle this? Is there anything I should specifically do? Could it have been damage done by the previous owner or would they have picked that up as the Vehicle was being certified? Also, if there is nothing I can do how much should this cost me? They are telling me that I should replace all of the clips but I asked if they were damaged and they said it's just precautionary. Also, only one cylinder seems to have damage. If it were from years of abuse wouldn't they all show signs of damage? I know this has been asked a lot of times however most of the information I find is back and forth asking if the person had over reved.

SheDrivesIt

Dude, go post this in the Under the Hood section or PM a moderator to move it there for you. I expect that Honda Care will try their best to avoid paying for anything. That is their history. By the way, if you have the warranty through Honda Care I doubt the car is "Certified".

mikegarrison

If they are in there already, replace all the retainers. But I would be surprised if the engine didn't need a lot more work than just that.

And yes, the cracked retainers are almost certainly from an overrev.

Miike505

Well I decided to check it out for myself, which is kinda pointless since I don't know my way around under the hood. But I got to talking to one of the techs and he pointed out what was going on. They just assume that it came from "abuse" but the other clips don't show damage. They say it's not necessarily from over revving the car but from driving it at higher rpm's to often. Not necessarily over the redline. I mostly drive 20 miles each way to and from school in cruise control to conserve gas and i've never held it at high rpm's without shifting if thats what they think. So I called Honda Care again and the service rep never submitted the claim for an inspector to check out the car. I had asked him earlier in the day to do so and he told me he would. Well I left him a message on his voicemail and we'll see what happens tomorrow. Also I took some pics not great quality but whatever.

http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h86/Miike505/

mikegarrison

Just driving it at high RPMs a lot should NOT cause the retainers to crack. It's possible that revving it at high RPMs in neutral could be an issue, though.

Was it an inlet retainer? Those are the ones that are known to crack with overrevs. If it was an exhaust retainer, I would say something else is the cause.

The most likely cause for the cracked retainer is an overrev, but as far as I know it is not conclusive proof of one. Do they have any other evidence?

mikegarrison

By the way, is it really the retainer "clip" that is broken? Or the retainer? There are two little clips per retainer that hold the valve stem onto the retainer.

Miike505

I don't really see any cracks. From my non mechanical point of view. The spring is up higher on the two "broken" clips then the other ones. The first picture in the album are the damaged ones, the second are the #4 cylinder ones that are considered not broken. No idea. Basically they are saying it's an over rev because Honda Techline, not sure what that is, told them it was.

mikegarrison

If it is the retainer that is cracked, you would not see the cracks. They crack on the underside.

I have to say, this really does sound like an overrev. But if this is the only evidence they have, you might have a case that they have not proven it.

Miike505

They say it's the clips and thats all i can go by is there word. I know it's going to be tough argument, but I know how I drive my car. I've never took it beyond it's limits. I've never hit the limiter and I've never mis-shifted. They say it doesn't have to be that. They say it could have happened from just being in high rpm's to often. That to me makes no sense. If I'm accelerating and I get to around 8k rpm and shift should that really damage my car? I'm not saying I never get up there, but just not often enough for me to be abusing the car. Could it be that they were just really weak clips or something? I have no idea. I pm'd a mod and asked for this to be moved to under the hood. Maybe someone else has been in this situation. This is really going to suck if everytime something on the car breaks they say it's from abuse just because thats how it usually happens. I just want them to give me a fair look at the car. And for the dealership to deny it without reporting it to Honda Care, even after my request, thats not fair.

SheDrivesIt

I'm glad that Garrison found the thread here and can speak intelligently. I can't as my knowledge is limited. You really will get a lot more input in the UTH forum as most of the gear heads there don't hang out in S2K Talk.