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STR Prep - Shock / Damper and Springs Discussion SCCA Autocross STR Class

Poll: STR Prep - Shock / Damper and Springs Discussion (121 member(s) have cast votes)

What brand of shocks do you use?

  1. Penske (17 votes [14.05%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.05%

  2. Moton (10 votes [8.26%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.26%

  3. AST (6 votes [4.96%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.96%

  4. Ohlins (11 votes [9.09%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

  5. JRZ (8 votes [6.61%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.61%

  6. Sachs (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Koni Yellow (Sport) (21 votes [17.36%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 17.36%

  8. Bilstein (5 votes [4.13%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.13%

  9. KW (11 votes [9.09%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

  10. Tein (5 votes [4.13%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.13%

  11. Other (26 votes [21.49%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 21.49%

  12. Koni Mono Tube (1 votes [0.83%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.83%

What FRONT spring rates do you use?

  1. 1,000 lbs/in (6 votes [5.88%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.88%

  2. 950 lbs/in (1 votes [0.98%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.98%

  3. 900 lbs/in (14 votes [13.73%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.73%

  4. 850 lbs/in (8 votes [7.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.84%

  5. 800 lbs/in (10 votes [9.80%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.80%

  6. 750 lbs/in (10 votes [9.80%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.80%

  7. 700 lbs/in (17 votes [16.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  8. 650 lbs/in (5 votes [4.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.90%

  9. 600 lbs/in (3 votes [2.94%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.94%

  10. 550 lbs/in (14 votes [13.73%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.73%

  11. 500 lbs/in (4 votes [3.92%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.92%

  12. 450 lbs/in (1 votes [0.98%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.98%

  13. 400 lbs/in (1 votes [0.98%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.98%

  14. other (8 votes [7.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.84%

What REAR spring rates do you use?

  1. 1,000 lbs/in (2 votes [1.96%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.96%

  2. 950 lbs/in (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. 900 lbs/in (8 votes [7.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.84%

  4. 850 lbs/in (3 votes [2.94%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.94%

  5. 800 lbs/in (11 votes [10.78%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.78%

  6. 750 lbs/in (7 votes [6.86%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.86%

  7. 700 lbs/in (9 votes [8.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.82%

  8. 650 lbs/in (9 votes [8.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.82%

  9. 600 lbs/in (12 votes [11.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.76%

  10. 550 lbs/in (14 votes [13.73%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.73%

  11. 500 lbs/in (9 votes [8.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.82%

  12. 450 lbs/in (5 votes [4.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.90%

  13. 400 lbs/in (5 votes [4.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.90%

  14. other (8 votes [7.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.84%

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#1 User is offline   Random1 

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 02:19 PM

=============== STR Threads ===============

STR Prep - Suspension and Alignment
STR Prep - Shock / Damper and Springs Discussion
STR Prep - Differential Discussion
STR Prep - ECU and Tuning Discusson
STR Prep - Wheels and Tires
STR Prep - Exhuast (tip to tail)
STR Prep - Weight Reduction
STR Prep - Sway Bars
SCCA Solo - STR Rules Discussion ---> (Debate rules and proposals here...)
STR Prep - AP1 vs AP2v1 vs AP2v2 vs CR
STR Prep - Intake • from DIY to Mugen
STR Engine Mounts

=============== STR Threads ===============

What shocks do you use? Any customization? Body length? Valving? Dyno Plots? Top hats? External reservoir mounting?

UPDATED 9/11/12

Car: 2003 S2000 AP1
Weight: 2650 lbs with 1/2 tank

Shocks: Penske 8300
Shock Body Length (lower bolt center to top of body/shaft bearing see photo below): Front = stock " --- Rear = 10.5"
Valving: Custom
Pistons: Compression - digressive --- Rebound - Linear

Springs: Hyperco 7" 950f/ 8" 750r

Front Sway Bar: Comptech Adjustable on full stiff (~900 lb/in)
Rear Sway Bar: 2006 MX-5 Front Bar with stock MX-5 bushings

Ride height: 12.25"f/12.5"r hub center to metal fender edge
Tires: 255 square Hankook RS3
Wheels: 949 Racing 6ULR 17x9

Alignment
Front Toe: 0.0 in
Front Camber: -3.0 deg
Caster: 5 deg

Rear Toe: -5/16"
Rear Camber: -2.6 deg


FRONT
Posted Image

For the front springs I use Hypercoil 2.5" ID "take up springs" that are 25 lb/in and 4" long.

http://pitstopusa.co...-i-d-25-lb.html

Posted Image

REAR
Posted Image

FRONT Dyno plot with custom valving inset
Posted Image

REAR Dyno plot with custom valving inset
Posted Image

REFERENCE Standard Penske Valving
Posted Image

Rear Shock Length (allows lowering in the rear with reasonable travel, ~1.5" before bump stop engagement). Using standard red Penske bump stop cut down by 1/4". Also using OEM top hats. Lower bolt to top of shaft bearing (part that screws into the top) is 10.5". See longer of two indicators in photo below.
Posted Image

This post has been edited by Random1: 28 December 2012 - 01:45 PM

Rob Rockefeller
#180 STR

Posted Image

Random1Racing.comMy S2000 Page

#2 User is offline   murderedrsx 

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 04:17 PM

Man i dont have that much info. Haha.

Shocks: tein flex.
Springs: 671f/520r (reversed from factory)
0 preload
Height: 13"f/13.5r
2000 NFR Chieko
Posted Image

#3 User is offline   josh7owens 

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 10:45 PM

Random1 (Rob) could you post some specs on your rear shocks? Such as dimensions? I'm curious about the following...


Shock body lenth from bottom mounting hole to top of dust cap/shock body:
amount of travel before the tire hits anything metal:
max your shocks have compressed (distance of that ziptie to the shock body):

This would help for people that get custom shocks made so they don't end up with shocks looking like mine..


Posted Image

these were bottomed out with 700 lbs rear springs and 60mm or so of rear shock travel. Also I've seen the helper springs on both the top and bottom of the main spring. What is the prefered location? My shocks came with them ontop but I think they should be below the main spring so that the body doesn't have to travel into the spring perch. Which causes rubing on the side of the dust cap as you can see. These shocks are only one season old and the limited rear travel caused them to already start leaking. They are being cut down over the winter and really need some specs from someone that already has short bodys. Please help me out rob.


edit- Your awesome! Tomarrow I'll post my shock dynos and all my findings. I'll pre-warn everyone I know nothing and just to take what I have to say as my findings and my findings only.

This post has been edited by josh7owens: 19 October 2011 - 10:47 PM

Posted Image Posted Image
08 Apex Blue CR- (STR PREPPED) Triple Adj JRZ Shocks, Dual Ball Bearing Bars, J's camber Joints, K&N Intake, Toda Header, Berk HFC, T1R 70em exhaust, Flashpro, Recaro SPG, Innovative 75a MM, Challange SS brake lines, GoPro Hero 3
00 BB S2000- Daily Driver

#4 User is offline   rjones 

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 09:45 AM

Thanks for posting the pic of the front mounting Random1. I will have to see if the AST resivors will fit there. Any problems with mounting them to the inter fender?

#5 User is offline   Random1 

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 12:31 AM

View Postrjones, on 20 October 2011 - 09:45 AM, said:

Thanks for posting the pic of the front mounting Random1. I will have to see if the AST resivors will fit there. Any problems with mounting them to the inter fender?

I have not had any issues with that mounting position and it's not too hard to adjust by lying on the ground and reaching in. They are mounted to the brake lines which is not the best, but have not gotten around to anything else. Maybe some day.

The hoses run across the front sway bar and had to wrap with tape to prevent chaffing of the braid on the hose.

#6 User is offline   //steve\\ 

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 09:16 AM

For the guys looking to play with spring rates I have a full set of 800lb Hyperco springs that I'm not using and probably won't ever use. They came with my KW Clubsports and I opted to just run the factory Clubsport springs. They are 6" tall, 2.5" ID. Springs are in very good condition and I'm willing to let them go cheap. Also willing to split them up if you just want 2 springs. PM me if interested.

Hopefully this coming year I can get out to more autocross events. This past year the organization I run with has had dates that just haven't worked for me or event locations were changed last minute. (We have one really good place to run and one crappy one)

#7 User is offline   rjones 

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 01:56 PM

View PostRandom1, on 21 October 2011 - 12:31 AM, said:

View Postrjones, on 20 October 2011 - 09:45 AM, said:

Thanks for posting the pic of the front mounting Random1. I will have to see if the AST resivors will fit there. Any problems with mounting them to the inter fender?

I have not had any issues with that mounting position and it's not too hard to adjust by lying on the ground and reaching in. They are mounted to the brake lines which is not the best, but have not gotten around to anything else. Maybe some day.

The hoses run across the front sway bar and had to wrap with tape to prevent chaffing of the braid on the hose.


After looking at my car, that will not work for me. The stock springs do not leave enough room. I run stock class and just come here to keep an eye on what the STR guys are doing, and think about making the jump to STR.

#8 User is offline   berny2435 

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 09:56 PM

I'm just getting setup but I'll throw some dice out so maybe someone will learn from my mistake. I purchased some KW clubsports and haven't modded them at all yet so still with 570/570# rates. With these you have to cut the rear bump stops down if you want to lower you car more than 0.7" rear.. . If you don't, you will blow through the bump stops and have issues with the rear stepping out when loaded (sometimes violent).

Shocks: KW Clubsports
Ride height: lowered 1.52" front and 1.36" rear - ground to unrolled fender lip (24-6/16" / 24-15/16") stock was (25.9frL/25.95frR - 26.3rL/26.4rR) and yes, it ended up lower than I was aiming for (oops)
Valving: NA KW
Pistons: NA
Springs: KW 570/570 (10K/10K) and KW helpers springs front and rear
Car: 2006 S2000 AP2
Tires: 215/45/17 Kuhmo XS, 245/40/17 Kuhmo XS
Wheels: OEM AP2V2
FSB = Gendron 1.25" 1/4"wall set on full soft as of now
camber = -1.8f/-2.3R zero toe front, 1/16 toe in rear (yes, the alignment shop screwed me

soon = adding Hardrace camber kit front, Raising the car about .6 front and .5 rear and cutting the rear bump stop back. (might thrown on some 12K front springs)

When I go with wider wheels and tires, I'm upping the front rate for sure and bar stiffness.

This post has been edited by berny2435: 24 October 2011 - 01:31 PM

06' SSM AP2 - SOLD
98' M3 4dr - does it all

#9 User is offline   //steve\\ 

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 12:43 PM

^I've never heard that about the rears and the bumpstops. I'm definitely more than an inch lower in the rear. Maybe my low ride height is part of my handling problems.

#10 User is offline   berny2435 

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 01:29 PM

View Post//steve\\, on 24 October 2011 - 12:43 PM, said:

^I've never heard that about the rears and the bumpstops. I'm definitely more than an inch lower in the rear. Maybe my low ride height is part of my handling problems.

PM'd

After talking with a couple other local S2000 guys and some other knowledgable dudes, I'm 100% sure it's my main handeling problem. A couple of them have experienced the same issue with their S2000s and Miatas

I'm no Stig, but a violent loss of rear traction when under slight throttle mid corner = often means rear spring rate went to infinity and beyond!!!

To be less than a 1" lower than stock with the KWs 570/570 spring rates, they will have to be setup with more pre-load than what KW reccomends I think. The helper springs will be pretty darn close to fully compressed. I'll try to remember to post some measurements once I get them setup where they need to be.

#11 User is offline   //steve\\ 

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 01:36 PM

With the design of the KWs you can't do squat about preload or at least I don't think you can.

The track I've been to a few times is reasonably smooth but it does have some dips mid turn here and there one of which caused me to spin the last time I was there. Now I'm wondering if I wasn't too deep into the bumpstop. I experienced exactly what you were saying. Was going fine and hit that bump mid turn and the rear immediately started to step out. I was trying to take the corner a little faster than I had been earlier in the day but the car should have been able to handle the speed I was attempting through there.

I do see a lot of STR guys running the car just as low or lower than me though so I'm convinced it's a problem you can work around. I definitely want to go up on the spring rates.

#12 User is offline   berny2435 

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 02:10 PM

View Post//steve\\, on 24 October 2011 - 01:36 PM, said:

I do see a lot of STR guys running the car just as low or lower than me though so I'm convinced it's a problem you can work around. I definitely want to go up on the spring rates.


yeah but one guy I run with doesn't have any bump stops and another couple have Very small ones and have measured that they will not bottom out their setup with their current ride height. IMO, It's never good to setup your shocks to knowingly run on the bump stops.

I don't know the all the specs or total height of the rear bump stop but I'm assuming if you compress it more than 1/2", it's going to go full stiff shortly after. I would assume that you need about 1.5" of shock travel with a lightly sprung 570/570 setup. I'm going to aim for 1.5" and measure my success with the butt dyno and zipties on the shocks to see if it worked.

#13 User is offline   TTMartin 

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 04:36 PM

View Postjosh7owens, on 19 October 2011 - 10:45 PM, said:

Random1 (Rob) could you post some specs on your rear shocks? Such as dimensions? I'm curious about the following...


Shock body lenth from bottom mounting hole to top of dust cap/shock body:
amount of travel before the tire hits anything metal:
max your shocks have compressed (distance of that ziptie to the shock body):

This would help for people that get custom shocks made so they don't end up with shocks looking like mine..


Posted Image

these were bottomed out with 700 lbs rear springs and 60mm or so of rear shock travel. Also I've seen the helper springs on both the top and bottom of the main spring. What is the prefered location? My shocks came with them ontop but I think they should be below the main spring so that the body doesn't have to travel into the spring perch. Which causes rubing on the side of the dust cap as you can see. These shocks are only one season old and the limited rear travel caused them to already start leaking. They are being cut down over the winter and really need some specs from someone that already has short bodys. Please help me out rob.


edit- Your awesome! Tomarrow I'll post my shock dynos and all my findings. I'll pre-warn everyone I know nothing and just to take what I have to say as my findings and my findings only.


I would get rid of the helper springs all together.
If you have limited travel you don't want to loose part of that travel to 50lbs helper springs.
Get rid of the helper spring and raise the bottom spring perch back up to maintain your current ride height.
Tom

Posted Image


Posted Image

#14 User is offline   IntegraR0064 

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:02 PM

View PostTTMartin, on 24 October 2011 - 04:36 PM, said:



I would get rid of the helper springs all together.
If you have limited travel you don't want to loose part of that travel to 50lbs helper springs.
Get rid of the helper spring and raise the bottom spring perch back up to maintain your current ride height.


1) My opinion is that helper springs are necessary in the rear with the kind of spring rates he has.
2) How exactly would taking out helper springs change how much shock travel you have? Maybe I'm missing something but that makes no sense.
-Jon Caserta
*2006 Laguna Blue S2000 - #8 or 183 STR

My STR S2000 blog with Tech info and STR guide

#15 User is offline   josh7owens 

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:04 PM

Tom-

Yea when they rebuild them and put on new shorter shock on I think I'm going to leave off the helper spring since it's scaring up the shock body. I'll prolly leave them in the front of the car though.

#16 User is offline   IntegraR0064 

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:04 PM

View Post//steve\\, on 24 October 2011 - 01:36 PM, said:


I do see a lot of STR guys running the car just as low or lower than me though so I'm convinced it's a problem you can work around. I definitely want to go up on the spring rates.


Spring rates are very high and the shocks are shortened and they're not running bumpstops.

#17 User is offline   IntegraR0064 

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:10 PM

View Postjosh7owens, on 24 October 2011 - 07:04 PM, said:

Tom-

Yea when they rebuild them and put on new shorter shock on I think I'm going to leave off the helper spring since it's scaring up the shock body. I'll prolly leave them in the front of the car though.


Why are your helper springs rubbing on the shock bodies? They should be the same ID as the main springs?

#18 User is offline   TTMartin 

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:12 PM

View PostIntegraR0064, on 24 October 2011 - 07:02 PM, said:

View PostTTMartin, on 24 October 2011 - 04:36 PM, said:



I would get rid of the helper springs all together.
If you have limited travel you don't want to loose part of that travel to 50lbs helper springs.
Get rid of the helper spring and raise the bottom spring perch back up to maintain your current ride height.


1) My opinion is that helper springs are necessary in the rear with the kind of spring rates he has.
2) How exactly would taking out helper springs change how much shock travel you have? Maybe I'm missing something but that makes no sense.


Removed due to incorrect information. corrected by others below.

This post has been edited by TTMartin: 26 October 2011 - 07:59 PM


#19 User is offline   IntegraR0064 

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:19 PM

View PostTTMartin, on 24 October 2011 - 07:12 PM, said:

View PostIntegraR0064, on 24 October 2011 - 07:02 PM, said:

View PostTTMartin, on 24 October 2011 - 04:36 PM, said:



I would get rid of the helper springs all together.
If you have limited travel you don't want to loose part of that travel to 50lbs helper springs.
Get rid of the helper spring and raise the bottom spring perch back up to maintain your current ride height.


1) My opinion is that helper springs are necessary in the rear with the kind of spring rates he has.
2) How exactly would taking out helper springs change how much shock travel you have? Maybe I'm missing something but that makes no sense.


As the low spring rate helper spring compresses so does the shock, then the real springs have less available shock travel once they start compressing.
No helper springs, more shock travel for the actual springs.


No, that's not how it works.

Think of it this way - when you put the car down the helper is fully compressed into a spacer. Therefore it's no different than moving the spring perch up since it's just a spacer.

#20 User is offline   berny2435 

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:36 PM

View PostTTMartin, on 24 October 2011 - 04:36 PM, said:

View Postjosh7owens, on 19 October 2011 - 10:45 PM, said:

Random1 (Rob) could you post some specs on your rear shocks? Such as dimensions? I'm curious about the following...


Shock body lenth from bottom mounting hole to top of dust cap/shock body:
amount of travel before the tire hits anything metal:
max your shocks have compressed (distance of that ziptie to the shock body):

This would help for people that get custom shocks made so they don't end up with shocks looking like mine..

these were bottomed out with 700 lbs rear springs and 60mm or so of rear shock travel. Also I've seen the helper springs on both the top and bottom of the main spring. What is the prefered location? My shocks came with them ontop but I think they should be below the main spring so that the body doesn't have to travel into the spring perch. Which causes rubing on the side of the dust cap as you can see. These shocks are only one season old and the limited rear travel caused them to already start leaking. They are being cut down over the winter and really need some specs from someone that already has short bodys. Please help me out rob.


edit- Your awesome! Tomarrow I'll post my shock dynos and all my findings. I'll pre-warn everyone I know nothing and just to take what I have to say as my findings and my findings only.


I would get rid of the helper springs all together.
If you have limited travel you don't want to loose part of that travel to 50lbs helper springs.
Get rid of the helper spring and raise the bottom spring perch back up to maintain your current ride height.


this would be true with my setup. Since the lower perches are on the shock body itself, the less preload I put on my helper springs, the less actual shock travel I will have. I am amazed that to only lower my car 1" on these KWs I basically have to preload/compress my helper springs to the point where I probably only have around 1/2" of travel left in the helper spring. The bump stop is within the helper spring cavity though.

this calculation is probably off a bit but with a 570# spring and a 800 corner weight the 570# spring would compress about 1.5" I think. going to a 670# spring would essentially give me back 0.3" of travel I think. I guess that's another option for me gaining some rear travel and retaining a helper spring and a lower ride height. Time to decide b/t the two evils I guess, cut my bump stops down or raise my spring rates.

This post has been edited by berny2435: 25 October 2011 - 12:42 AM


#21 User is offline   josh7owens 

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:37 PM

View PostIntegraR0064, on 24 October 2011 - 07:10 PM, said:

View Postjosh7owens, on 24 October 2011 - 07:04 PM, said:

Tom-

Yea when they rebuild them and put on new shorter shock on I think I'm going to leave off the helper spring since it's scaring up the shock body. I'll prolly leave them in the front of the car though.


Why are your helper springs rubbing on the shock bodies? They should be the same ID as the main springs?



they are but as you can see they have rubed the dust cap and scratched it up. I'm guessing the clearence is so tight that any wiggle in the spring at all it moves enough to come incontact with. So should I run the helper spring and but it on the bottom instead of the top of the spring? This will keep it from rubbing the shock body. Random1 (Rob) doesn't run rear helper springs...

look at the helper spring perch and look at the dust cap.. you can see what rubs.

This post has been edited by josh7owens: 24 October 2011 - 07:41 PM


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Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:43 PM

View PostIntegraR0064, on 24 October 2011 - 07:19 PM, said:

No, that's not how it works.

Think of it this way - when you put the car down the helper is fully compressed into a spacer. Therefore it's no different than moving the spring perch up since it's just a spacer.


Most all helper spring setups will take up some shock travel by design

http://www.hondatuni...s/photo_04.html

on this setup, if you put zero pre-load on the springs, you will essentially take away almost all the shock travel showing b/t the top and bottom of the helper spring thus shortening the total travel available b/c the shock shaft is now further into the shock body while the car is resting on the main spring.

This post has been edited by berny2435: 24 October 2011 - 07:45 PM


#23 User is offline   Random1 

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 10:11 PM

View Postberny2435, on 24 October 2011 - 07:43 PM, said:

View PostIntegraR0064, on 24 October 2011 - 07:19 PM, said:

No, that's not how it works.

Think of it this way - when you put the car down the helper is fully compressed into a spacer. Therefore it's no different than moving the spring perch up since it's just a spacer.


Most all helper spring setups will take up some shock travel by design

http://www.hondatuni...s/photo_04.html

on this setup, if you put zero pre-load on the springs, you will essentially take away almost all the shock travel showing b/t the top and bottom of the helper spring thus shortening the total travel available b/c the shock shaft is now further into the shock body while the car is resting on the main spring.

I think you and TTMartin have the shock travel misunderstood. The bottom line is ride height. The shock body is connected to the lower control arm. The shock shaft is connected to the chassis. In order to achieve a given ride height the relationship of the lower control arm and chassis is fixed. The same goes for the shock body and shock shaft since they are attached to the lower control arm and chassis. Whether or not you have take up (helper) springs and dividers those relationships do not change. What is different is where the lower perch is to achieve the ride height. It will just be lower (as already mentioned) when the helper spring and divider are in place.

#24 User is offline   josh7owens 

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 10:29 PM

SO the question is to run a helper spring or no? If so shoud it be below the main spring or above like in my picture? I've seen them both ways.

#25 User is offline   IntegraR0064 

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 10:56 PM

View PostRandom1, on 24 October 2011 - 10:11 PM, said:

View Postberny2435, on 24 October 2011 - 07:43 PM, said:

View PostIntegraR0064, on 24 October 2011 - 07:19 PM, said:

No, that's not how it works.

Think of it this way - when you put the car down the helper is fully compressed into a spacer. Therefore it's no different than moving the spring perch up since it's just a spacer.


Most all helper spring setups will take up some shock travel by design

http://www.hondatuni...s/photo_04.html

on this setup, if you put zero pre-load on the springs, you will essentially take away almost all the shock travel showing b/t the top and bottom of the helper spring thus shortening the total travel available b/c the shock shaft is now further into the shock body while the car is resting on the main spring.

I think you and TTMartin have the shock travel misunderstood. The bottom line is ride height. The shock body is connected to the lower control arm. The shock shaft is connected to the chassis. In order to achieve a given ride height the relationship of the lower control arm and chassis is fixed. The same goes for the shock body and shock shaft since they are attached to the lower control arm and chassis. Whether or not you have take up (helper) springs and dividers those relationships do not change. What is different is where the lower perch is to achieve the ride height. It will just be lower (as already mentioned) when the helper spring and divider are in place.


Exactly, thanks for typing that.

View Postjosh7owens, on 24 October 2011 - 10:29 PM, said:

SO the question is to run a helper spring or no? If so shoud it be below the main spring or above like in my picture? I've seen them both ways.


Helper springs are a good idea although they're not absolutely necessary. As Rob and I have said, having the helper spring doesn't change your shock travel unless the helper spring itself is interfering with the shock, like it sounds like it is. If putting it on the bottom will make it so that won't happen then go for it. Just make sure the helper spring is stiff enough that the weight of the main spring doesn't compress it enough to unseat the spring. I would be surprised if they were that soft (it would need to be less than like 5 lb/in), but just make sure by checking to see that the spring stays seated when you're drooped.

As another option you could maybe go with 2.5" springs? I'm assuming you're using something smaller than that if you're having ID clearance issues.

Are you using helper spring guides? They might help too.

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