Genuine Honda Coolant is the Only Way to Go
11-11-2002, 09:19 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Genuine Honda Coolant is the Only Way to Go
I got this information from a friend with an NSX. It's a pretty reasonable argument in favor of using Honda/Acura coolant over other brands.
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[A/H, KS] Recently, several people have questioned whether the coolant (anti-freeze) sold by Honda and Acura dealers is different from the popular mass-market brands.
Honda has sent the information attached below to its dealers. While you might not expect the source to be exactly unbiased, it does provide technical information and justification for differences in their formula.
Genuine Honda Coolant is the Only Way to Go
Increasingly severe operating conditions and the advent of lower maintenance requirements have resulted in significant changes in the variety and the concentration of additives used in engine coolant. Also, the continual improvements in engine and vehicle design have challenged coolant suppliers to design products that perform well in a more demanding environment.
To meet these needs, Honda engineers have developed a superior, high-quality coolant that has several advantages over the competition.
Some antifreeze, although labeled as safe for aluminum parts, may not be compatible with Acura cooling system components. Extensive research and testing by both Honda R&D and CCI, the manufacturer of the Honda coolant, have proven that the abrasive silicates and/or borates found in most domestic coolants can cause these problems:
- - Silicates bond to the surface of the water pump seal and act as an abrasive, causing considerable seal erosion and coolant leakage. In actual tests, the silicated coolant caused early leakage. This leakage increased dramatically until a substantial portion of the coolant had been lost. In contrast, the Honda coolant had almost no leakage through the duration of the test.
Chart here, entitled "Coolant Leakage from Water Pump Seal", showing Leaked Coolant Volume in ml as follows for each test duration in Hours:
24 hrs: Honda Coolant 0, Typical Silicated Coolant 21
48 hrs: Honda Coolant 1, Typical Silicated Coolant 36
72 hrs: Honda Coolant 2, Typical Silicated Coolant 47
96 hrs: Honda Coolant 2, Typical Silicated Coolant 55
120 hrs: Honda Coolant 2.5, Typical Silicated Coolant 56
144 hrs: Honda Coolant 3.5, Typical Silicated Coolant 57
168 hrs: Honda Coolant 4, Typical Silicated Coolant 58.8
192 hrs: Honda Coolant 6, Typical Silicated Coolant 63
200 hrs: Honda Coolant 6, Typical Silicated Coolant 64
- - Silicates tend to gel and settle in the coolest parts of the cooling system, causing radiator plugging and overheating.
- - Borates cause pitting corrosion on the cylinder head.
- - Silicate inhibitors are difficult to stabilize and, therefore, limit coolant shelf life.
Most commercially available coolants were originally designed for cast iron engines. Silicate, an inexpensive additive, was added to coolants to prevent aluminum corrosion, but the long-term durability of the combination was not tested.
In contrast, Honda coolant was designed specifically for aluminum engines. It contains an organic corrosion inhibitor instead of silicate. This superior formula gives these advantages:
- - No silicate abrasion of water pump seals. For example, these graphs show the surface roughness of two aluminum water pump seal rings. Seal A, exposed to silicated coolant, shows considerable damage. Seal B, exposed to Honda coolant, displays only minute wear.
[graphs here, showing roughness across the surface, with A a very wiggly line, and B a very smooth line]
- - No plugging or overheating caused by silicate gelling.
- - Excellent corrosion protection for aluminum components.
- - Long-term corrosion protection for other cooling system materials (steel, cast iron, copper, solder, gaskets, seals, and O-rings).
You can find less expensive coolants on the market, but now you can see why genuine Honda coolant is the only coolant approved for Honda and Acura vehicles (it MUST be used for warranty repairs). Honda's non-silicate formula delivers added protection not offered by 95 percent of other brands. Since our customers expect lower maintenance, you're doing them an injustice if you use any other coolant.
[MBA - 99/9/7] The coolant sold at Honda Dealers is the same part number as Acura stores sell, so try your nearest Honda dealer if your Acura dealer is far away.
--------------------------
[A/H, KS] Recently, several people have questioned whether the coolant (anti-freeze) sold by Honda and Acura dealers is different from the popular mass-market brands.
Honda has sent the information attached below to its dealers. While you might not expect the source to be exactly unbiased, it does provide technical information and justification for differences in their formula.
Genuine Honda Coolant is the Only Way to Go
Increasingly severe operating conditions and the advent of lower maintenance requirements have resulted in significant changes in the variety and the concentration of additives used in engine coolant. Also, the continual improvements in engine and vehicle design have challenged coolant suppliers to design products that perform well in a more demanding environment.
To meet these needs, Honda engineers have developed a superior, high-quality coolant that has several advantages over the competition.
Some antifreeze, although labeled as safe for aluminum parts, may not be compatible with Acura cooling system components. Extensive research and testing by both Honda R&D and CCI, the manufacturer of the Honda coolant, have proven that the abrasive silicates and/or borates found in most domestic coolants can cause these problems:
- - Silicates bond to the surface of the water pump seal and act as an abrasive, causing considerable seal erosion and coolant leakage. In actual tests, the silicated coolant caused early leakage. This leakage increased dramatically until a substantial portion of the coolant had been lost. In contrast, the Honda coolant had almost no leakage through the duration of the test.
Chart here, entitled "Coolant Leakage from Water Pump Seal", showing Leaked Coolant Volume in ml as follows for each test duration in Hours:
24 hrs: Honda Coolant 0, Typical Silicated Coolant 21
48 hrs: Honda Coolant 1, Typical Silicated Coolant 36
72 hrs: Honda Coolant 2, Typical Silicated Coolant 47
96 hrs: Honda Coolant 2, Typical Silicated Coolant 55
120 hrs: Honda Coolant 2.5, Typical Silicated Coolant 56
144 hrs: Honda Coolant 3.5, Typical Silicated Coolant 57
168 hrs: Honda Coolant 4, Typical Silicated Coolant 58.8
192 hrs: Honda Coolant 6, Typical Silicated Coolant 63
200 hrs: Honda Coolant 6, Typical Silicated Coolant 64
- - Silicates tend to gel and settle in the coolest parts of the cooling system, causing radiator plugging and overheating.
- - Borates cause pitting corrosion on the cylinder head.
- - Silicate inhibitors are difficult to stabilize and, therefore, limit coolant shelf life.
Most commercially available coolants were originally designed for cast iron engines. Silicate, an inexpensive additive, was added to coolants to prevent aluminum corrosion, but the long-term durability of the combination was not tested.
In contrast, Honda coolant was designed specifically for aluminum engines. It contains an organic corrosion inhibitor instead of silicate. This superior formula gives these advantages:
- - No silicate abrasion of water pump seals. For example, these graphs show the surface roughness of two aluminum water pump seal rings. Seal A, exposed to silicated coolant, shows considerable damage. Seal B, exposed to Honda coolant, displays only minute wear.
[graphs here, showing roughness across the surface, with A a very wiggly line, and B a very smooth line]
- - No plugging or overheating caused by silicate gelling.
- - Excellent corrosion protection for aluminum components.
- - Long-term corrosion protection for other cooling system materials (steel, cast iron, copper, solder, gaskets, seals, and O-rings).
You can find less expensive coolants on the market, but now you can see why genuine Honda coolant is the only coolant approved for Honda and Acura vehicles (it MUST be used for warranty repairs). Honda's non-silicate formula delivers added protection not offered by 95 percent of other brands. Since our customers expect lower maintenance, you're doing them an injustice if you use any other coolant.
[MBA - 99/9/7] The coolant sold at Honda Dealers is the same part number as Acura stores sell, so try your nearest Honda dealer if your Acura dealer is far away.
11-11-2002, 10:05 AM
#3
You know the my honda Dealer installed Quaker State coolant when they replaced my block. I wonder about this...hmmm.
Is this another case where the rest of the USDM Honda have Cast iron block, and the S is Alum?
Is this another case where the rest of the USDM Honda have Cast iron block, and the S is Alum?
11-11-2002, 10:07 AM
#4
DJ Qube, please do not take offense at what I'm about to say as you are only relaying what Honda/Acura has put out and you only have the best interest of other forum members at heart.
The info provided by the Honda/Acura statement is more of a warning against "silicates" in engine coolant while at the same time, promoting their own product - a philosophy not unlike any other manufacturer. This, by no means, indicates that the Honda brand coolant is superior to anyone else's. When a consumer buys antifreeze, he/she should look very closely at the label to ensure that the coolant is "silicate-free". Most long life coolants are, in fact, silicate free AND safe for aluminum engines. Honda is NOT the only car maker to put all aluminum engines in their cars. As one who does his own maintenance, I find the Honda coolant to have one major disadvantage. The ones recommended for this car needs to be changed after 2 years from new and every year thereafter. This is a pain. I've elected to go with the "Dexcool" type, "silicate free" engine coolant. It is considered a 5 year or "long life" antifreeze. I have used the one specifically used for factory fills on all the Chrysler aluminum engined cars. It is a Dexcool type of fluid that is commonly used in GM cars from the factory. I have had great success with converting over to Dexcool in previous aluminum engined cars. Certainly, for topping up the stock coolant in this car, one should make certain that the coolant used is "silicate free" and for that purpose, you may as well go with the Honda product.
The info provided by the Honda/Acura statement is more of a warning against "silicates" in engine coolant while at the same time, promoting their own product - a philosophy not unlike any other manufacturer. This, by no means, indicates that the Honda brand coolant is superior to anyone else's. When a consumer buys antifreeze, he/she should look very closely at the label to ensure that the coolant is "silicate-free". Most long life coolants are, in fact, silicate free AND safe for aluminum engines. Honda is NOT the only car maker to put all aluminum engines in their cars. As one who does his own maintenance, I find the Honda coolant to have one major disadvantage. The ones recommended for this car needs to be changed after 2 years from new and every year thereafter. This is a pain. I've elected to go with the "Dexcool" type, "silicate free" engine coolant. It is considered a 5 year or "long life" antifreeze. I have used the one specifically used for factory fills on all the Chrysler aluminum engined cars. It is a Dexcool type of fluid that is commonly used in GM cars from the factory. I have had great success with converting over to Dexcool in previous aluminum engined cars. Certainly, for topping up the stock coolant in this car, one should make certain that the coolant used is "silicate free" and for that purpose, you may as well go with the Honda product.
11-11-2002, 10:29 AM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
[QUOTE]Originally posted by xviper
[B]DJ Qube, please do not take offense at what I'm about to say as you are only relaying what Honda/Acura has put out and you only have the best interest of other forum members at heart.
The info provided by the Honda/Acura statement is more of a warning against "silicates" in engine coolant while at the same time, promoting their own product - a philosophy not unlike any other manufacturer.
[B]DJ Qube, please do not take offense at what I'm about to say as you are only relaying what Honda/Acura has put out and you only have the best interest of other forum members at heart.
The info provided by the Honda/Acura statement is more of a warning against "silicates" in engine coolant while at the same time, promoting their own product - a philosophy not unlike any other manufacturer.
11-11-2002, 10:29 AM
#7
I priced Honda coolant at the local dealer and it was TEN TIMES what cheap no-name coolants costs. I have used low cost coolant (with regular changes) for years without problems, and this is what a journal for profession mechanics says:
"In Japanese cars equipped with silicate-free coolant, rely on this bit of history: These coolants never were sold in any quantity in the U.S. Japanese cars seem to survive nicely on conventional American products, so the safe approach is to stick with them. Both Japanese silicate-free and conventional American coolants contain phosphates, so they share that key inhibitor. "
"In Japanese cars equipped with silicate-free coolant, rely on this bit of history: These coolants never were sold in any quantity in the U.S. Japanese cars seem to survive nicely on conventional American products, so the safe approach is to stick with them. Both Japanese silicate-free and conventional American coolants contain phosphates, so they share that key inhibitor. "
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11-11-2002, 11:38 AM
#9
Do any of you run a higher water / anti-freeze mixture? I have been running a 75/25 mix for quite some time (with RL Water Wetter), and it does really well. I have noticed that my cooling fans cycle normally while sitting at grid between autocross runs, even with the cooler thermostat and fan switch during a 100 deg. F day.
11-11-2002, 12:48 PM
#10
Registered User
75/25 no water wetter.
I tried the Prestone Pink (extended life) in my '99 Prelude for about 20-30k miles. No problems (not that I would expect them) and I doubt there would be problems. Prestone claims that it is borate, phosphate, and silicate free.
Chris, you REALLY need to try http://www.hparts.com!!! They are generally 25% to 50% less than local dealers. For instance, a cap and rotor for my Prelude were about $30 shipped, what I would pay for a no-namer at a local parts store. I think the last time I bought Honda antifreeze it was a little cheaper than the Prestone Pink, a little more than what the standard stuff runs.
Note that Honda now sells Type I and Type II coolant. I believe the Type I is for vehicles prior to '00 (or '99?) and is the mix-it-youself type. The Type II is the pre-mixed stuff. Not sure why they spec it for one year and didn't just replace it all, but there you go. Be forewarned when you buy the genuine stuff!
gernby and others... it's best to keep a minimumn of 20-25% coolant since it helps lubricate the system.
I tried the Prestone Pink (extended life) in my '99 Prelude for about 20-30k miles. No problems (not that I would expect them) and I doubt there would be problems. Prestone claims that it is borate, phosphate, and silicate free.
Chris, you REALLY need to try http://www.hparts.com!!! They are generally 25% to 50% less than local dealers. For instance, a cap and rotor for my Prelude were about $30 shipped, what I would pay for a no-namer at a local parts store. I think the last time I bought Honda antifreeze it was a little cheaper than the Prestone Pink, a little more than what the standard stuff runs.
Note that Honda now sells Type I and Type II coolant. I believe the Type I is for vehicles prior to '00 (or '99?) and is the mix-it-youself type. The Type II is the pre-mixed stuff. Not sure why they spec it for one year and didn't just replace it all, but there you go. Be forewarned when you buy the genuine stuff!
gernby and others... it's best to keep a minimumn of 20-25% coolant since it helps lubricate the system.