Auto Racing Discussion F1, IRL, Champ Car, Nascar, WRC, BTCC, etc. Discuss recent races, results.

3.0 V10 engines in 2006?

Thread Tools
 
Old Oct 18, 2005 | 04:17 AM
  #1  
Triple-H's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 58,680
Likes: 2
From: West Henrietta UPSTATE NY
Default 3.0 V10 engines in 2006?

The following news story just drives me crazy...
The whole damn V8 rule was proposed in part to reduce costs. Now if teams should choose to use the old V10 all of that time and money in development will have been wasted. One thing for sure, watching Squadra Toro Rosso should be very interesting because their plan is already in place, they will be running the V10.

OCTOBER 18, 2005
The V10 formula of 2006?

Some time ago the FIA asked Formula 1 teams to accept rules which rev-limited V10 engines. The federation argued that this would slow the cars and cut costs. As early as 1996 FIA President Max Mosley proposed an engine rev limiter to be introduced in 2001. The teams argued that Formula 1 is all about performance and pushing the limits. It seemed that Mosley had given up when last year he announced that there would be 2.4-litre V8 engines in 2006 to reduce power and costs. Mosley added that "in order not to prejudice the smaller independent teams" the existing 3-litre V10 engines would be allowed to continue in 2006 and 2007 "subject to a restriction on revs to be determined by the FIA".

The teams were finally forced to accept this change, although several were strongly opposed to the V8 idea.

And so, in theory at least, we will see a 2.4-litre V8 engine formula in 2006 and all the major F1 teams are working on the development of the new V8s. Only Squadra Toro Rosso (aka Minardi) is planning to go into the new season with a rev-limited V10. The stated FIA plan was that "the rev limit will be set at a level which will ensure that the engine is less powerful - but not much less powerful - than the 2.4s."

In recent months, however, it has been clear that the V8s will not be very powerful and, more importantly, will have less robust rev ranges than the restricted V10s and there are some who believe that the rev-limited V10 engine could actually be a better package because with the two-race engine rule revs have been reduced anyway. There has been a lot of talk recently of changing the equivalency factor but if it remains the same we are likely to see teams begin to realise that the V8 is not the way to go and switch to rev-limited V10s instead. There is a precedent in all this as Honda decided in 1988 that rather than switch to new normally-aspirated 3.5-litre engines it would maximise the performance of the older turbos despite a boost pressure cut from 4 to 2.5 bar and a fuel tank capacity reduced from 195 to 150 litres. The result was a dominant car which won 15 of the 16 races.

So be prepared, we may end up with a field full of rev-limited V10s next year.

When you stop to think about it, this is what the FIA wanted all along and all that the manufacturers will end up with are expensive V8s which will be thrown on the scrap heap. Once teams have accepted rev limits, the FIA would then be able to control engine power quite simply by lowering the rev-limits from one year to the next, particularly if the V8 rules were later scrapped. And once the revs are low there would be little opposition to regulations demanding engines which last for six races.
Reply
Old Oct 18, 2005 | 07:23 AM
  #2  
s2ksimon's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 12,843
Likes: 1
From: Toronto & FnF ssauga
Default

shameful of the FIA...

i'll say it again, the sport of F1 is a joke and is completely being mismanaged
Reply
Old Oct 18, 2005 | 07:42 AM
  #3  
bridow's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 1
From: Russkii Hill
Default

i hate all the rule changes. its impossible to advance a sport when the rules are changing yearly. i like the mixup in pts standings this year, but there were just too many cars that did not finish *cough* sato *cough*
Reply
Old Oct 18, 2005 | 07:52 AM
  #4  
mach85's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Chicaaago
Default

Bob Varsha had some interesting tongue in cheek comments on "wind tunnel" this week. Even the announcer of Formula 1 can't cover up his disgust.

At least I got my 2005 refund.
Reply
Old Oct 18, 2005 | 08:40 AM
  #5  
PilotSi's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,820
Likes: 0
Default

Yep. I've read that back a few months ago. V10s now make ~900hp...detuned, turn less revs, make the same power, and be infinitely more reliable then a high-strung 20,000+ V8 making the same power.

How is this cost effective anyways? R&D on that V8 is crazy expensive...with less reliability, less performance...how is this a win/win situation???
Reply
Old Oct 18, 2005 | 10:09 AM
  #6  
mikegarrison's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 22,888
Likes: 3
From: Covington WA, USA
Default

Pilot, if you have the same displacement but turn fewer revs you are not going to "make the same power".
Reply
Old Oct 18, 2005 | 10:17 AM
  #7  
pantyraider's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,202
Likes: 1
From: San Fran
Default

I think he meant a V10 engine will be as reliable if not more than a V8 making the same amount of power at higher revs.

Make sense?
Reply
Old Oct 18, 2005 | 12:20 PM
  #8  
drewchie's Avatar
Registered User
Gold Member (Premium)
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,539
Likes: 0
From: Santa Monica
Default

I have to agree with Minardi... For 2006, I've also decided to scratch the Drewchie V8. The higher rev limit was of no advantage to my motor as no matter how many steriods I give them, the damn hamsters can't spin the thing any faster than 17k anyway.

Reply
Old Oct 18, 2005 | 12:27 PM
  #9  
mikegarrison's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 22,888
Likes: 3
From: Covington WA, USA
Default

[Props man tries to attach antlers to a mouse]
Props man: I can't get the antlers glued to this little guy. We tried Crazy Glue, but it don't work.
Frank Cross: Did you try staples?
Reply
Old Oct 18, 2005 | 12:54 PM
  #10  
Triple-H's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 58,680
Likes: 2
From: West Henrietta UPSTATE NY
Default

Originally Posted by s2ksimon,Oct 18 2005, 10:23 AM
shameful of the FIA...
i'll say it again, the sport of F1 is a joke and is completely being mismanaged
Simon, as you know, we do not always see eye to eye on matters of F1, but I have to say, on this I agree with you 100%, and all I can say is it makes me that F1 is being flushed down the drain by Max and Bernie.

I mean after all, if the desire was to REALLY make F1 more affordable, do ya think for just a second Mr. Tightass Billionare Bernie could reduce his profit margin slightly on advertising rights and feed a bit more cash back into the teams...
Reply



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:11 PM.