Blown F1 Engines
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From: Northeast Jersey
Blown F1 Engines
What's going on with all these F1 engines blowing up? Every race it seems that at least 2 or 3 engines are always failing. I'm a newb to watching this sport and from what I've understood, the rules were changed so that everyone uses V-8's? Correct me if I'm mistaken.
If that's the case, the engines should really be redesigned.
Andre
If that's the case, the engines should really be redesigned.
Andre
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From: Austin
Last year they ran 3.0L V10's that revved to 18,000 RPM. F1 had been running this engine format for nearly 10 years, and they had a lot of engineering experience with the V10.
Now they run 2.4L V8's that rev to 19,500 RPM or even as high as 20,000 RPM (Cosworth). The V8's have about a year's worth of development time, and relatively little on-track time.
Reportedly, the V10's had vibration issues somewhere in the vicinity of 10,000RPM, but since they spent little time in this part of the powerband, it was of little issue. The V8's have vibration issues high in the powerband, right where the engine spends most of its time during a race. This has had some serious effects on reliability.
Now they run 2.4L V8's that rev to 19,500 RPM or even as high as 20,000 RPM (Cosworth). The V8's have about a year's worth of development time, and relatively little on-track time.
Reportedly, the V10's had vibration issues somewhere in the vicinity of 10,000RPM, but since they spent little time in this part of the powerband, it was of little issue. The V8's have vibration issues high in the powerband, right where the engine spends most of its time during a race. This has had some serious effects on reliability.
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From: Northeast Jersey
Originally Posted by azrael,Mar 22 2006, 07:06 PM
Last year they ran 3.0L V10's that revved to 18,000 RPM. F1 had been running this engine format for nearly 10 years, and they had a lot of engineering experience with the V10.
Now they run 2.4L V8's that rev to 19,500 RPM or even as high as 20,000 RPM (Cosworth). The V8's have about a year's worth of development time, and relatively little on-track time.
Reportedly, the V10's had vibration issues somewhere in the vicinity of 10,000RPM, but since they spent little time in this part of the powerband, it was of little issue. The V8's have vibration issues high in the powerband, right where the engine spends most of its time during a race. This has had some serious effects on reliability.
Now they run 2.4L V8's that rev to 19,500 RPM or even as high as 20,000 RPM (Cosworth). The V8's have about a year's worth of development time, and relatively little on-track time.
Reportedly, the V10's had vibration issues somewhere in the vicinity of 10,000RPM, but since they spent little time in this part of the powerband, it was of little issue. The V8's have vibration issues high in the powerband, right where the engine spends most of its time during a race. This has had some serious effects on reliability.
Andre
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From: Honolulu
Originally Posted by 8kGoodENuff,Mar 22 2006, 07:37 PM
This definately explains the problem... So they would allow these engines to be used even though it only had 1 year of development and no track time? That's pretty risky I'd say, as seen.
Andre
Andre
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From: Ph-Ph-Ph-Phoenix
8k, If you're new to the sport don't try to understand or rationalize anything that comes down from Max Mosely or Bernie Eccelstone (Head of FIA and Formula 1 respectivley). They are complete jackasses and have been doing stupid sh!t like this for years.
To expand on what "azrael" said: The V10's they were previously running were not rev limited but they could only spin them up to around 19k before they liked to go boom and they used to be able to swap engines whenever needed with no penalty. Last season rules were set in place to "keep costs down" so they had to make their engine last 2 complete race weekends or bear a 10 grid spot penalty if you blow up before the 2nd race started (ie. practice/qualifying). If you DNF'd you could change with only the penalty of not finishing the race.
The new rules for this season call for a 2.4l V8 with unrestricted revs (excluding Scuderia Torro Rosso which is riding on an exception that was made for the now defunct and underfunded Minardi team which allows them to have the V10 with intake and rev restrictions). The problem with the new V8 is that the layout is inherently imbalanced and the more you rev it the more it shakes as to where the V10 had a range (I think it was between 10-14k rpm) that it's imbalanced and would smooth itself out after that so when the revs get up there you're only fighting the physics of making something start and stop 600 times per second
The V8 at the revs they are pushing it to is trying to shake itself apart so it is impossing some new issues to engineer for.
To expand on what "azrael" said: The V10's they were previously running were not rev limited but they could only spin them up to around 19k before they liked to go boom and they used to be able to swap engines whenever needed with no penalty. Last season rules were set in place to "keep costs down" so they had to make their engine last 2 complete race weekends or bear a 10 grid spot penalty if you blow up before the 2nd race started (ie. practice/qualifying). If you DNF'd you could change with only the penalty of not finishing the race.
The new rules for this season call for a 2.4l V8 with unrestricted revs (excluding Scuderia Torro Rosso which is riding on an exception that was made for the now defunct and underfunded Minardi team which allows them to have the V10 with intake and rev restrictions). The problem with the new V8 is that the layout is inherently imbalanced and the more you rev it the more it shakes as to where the V10 had a range (I think it was between 10-14k rpm) that it's imbalanced and would smooth itself out after that so when the revs get up there you're only fighting the physics of making something start and stop 600 times per second
The V8 at the revs they are pushing it to is trying to shake itself apart so it is impossing some new issues to engineer for.
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From: Toronto & FnF ssauga
Great info already has been submitted from other posts..
From what i've been told from those across the pond.. here's my $.02
Each engine must last for two complete Grand Prix. Each driver may use no more than one engine for two consecutive Events. Should it become necessary for a driver to use another engine he will drop ten places on the starting grid at that Event and may not use another engine until the end of the next Event. Following so far ?
Then , any driver who fails to finish the race at the first of the two events, may start the second with a different engine without incurring a penalty. This is iffy with the FIA at the moment with regards to clarifying it for the drivers.
Should an engine change be carried out after the 1st qualifying practice session but before the race at either of the two Events, drivers concerned will be required to start the race from the back of the starting grid.
The FIA have a very sophisticated computer network systems oblivious to the public and to tv viewers. The FIA attach seals to each engine and have it hard wired to a computer system. So as soon as the driver crosses the start/finish line, the FIA systems records a lot of data. Some of which is privy to the viewing public, (ie timesheets, sector times and general incidents) and some of which is not. They know have developed a systems where by each team have their cameras to follow their own cars around with lap times. But more to the point, the information regarding the engines is available for them in this data acquired. The systems records, team name, engine manufacturer, and engine serial number. So if the teams try to pull a fast one, the serial number will not match and it will immediately show up on the officials screen.
As well, the FIA attach seals to each engine in order to ensure that no significant moving parts can be rebuilt or replaced when the cars are parked leading up to a grand prix. Then after one event, the FIA apply further seals, in order to ensure that the engine cannot be run until the second Event unless.
Other than the straight replacement of one engine unit with another, a change will also be deemed to have taken place if any of the FIA seals are damaged or removed from the original engine and back of the grid you go.
I hope this helps..
From what i've been told from those across the pond.. here's my $.02
Each engine must last for two complete Grand Prix. Each driver may use no more than one engine for two consecutive Events. Should it become necessary for a driver to use another engine he will drop ten places on the starting grid at that Event and may not use another engine until the end of the next Event. Following so far ?
Then , any driver who fails to finish the race at the first of the two events, may start the second with a different engine without incurring a penalty. This is iffy with the FIA at the moment with regards to clarifying it for the drivers.
Should an engine change be carried out after the 1st qualifying practice session but before the race at either of the two Events, drivers concerned will be required to start the race from the back of the starting grid.
The FIA have a very sophisticated computer network systems oblivious to the public and to tv viewers. The FIA attach seals to each engine and have it hard wired to a computer system. So as soon as the driver crosses the start/finish line, the FIA systems records a lot of data. Some of which is privy to the viewing public, (ie timesheets, sector times and general incidents) and some of which is not. They know have developed a systems where by each team have their cameras to follow their own cars around with lap times. But more to the point, the information regarding the engines is available for them in this data acquired. The systems records, team name, engine manufacturer, and engine serial number. So if the teams try to pull a fast one, the serial number will not match and it will immediately show up on the officials screen.
As well, the FIA attach seals to each engine in order to ensure that no significant moving parts can be rebuilt or replaced when the cars are parked leading up to a grand prix. Then after one event, the FIA apply further seals, in order to ensure that the engine cannot be run until the second Event unless.
Other than the straight replacement of one engine unit with another, a change will also be deemed to have taken place if any of the FIA seals are damaged or removed from the original engine and back of the grid you go.
I hope this helps..
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From: West Henrietta UPSTATE NY
Originally Posted by Colin,Mar 23 2006, 01:31 AM
Yes, and all in the name of "cost savings"
Originally Posted by Triple-H,Mar 10 2006, 08:49 AM
1,000,000,000.00 Euro = $1,191,038,792.47 United States Dollars
Speed reported that this 1 Billion Euro is what the change to V8 engines cost the teams. Mind you it is estimated the cost to put a carbon fiber cover with a smaller hole in it over the STR air intake to restrict the old V10 cost one buck. So, in an attempt to reduce costs the FIA implimented a policy that cost $1,191,038,792.47, however, this same reduced performance could have been accomplished for about 1 buck per car so lets say $44. That means the teams could have saved $1,191,038,748.47... but noooooo.
Speed reported that this 1 Billion Euro is what the change to V8 engines cost the teams. Mind you it is estimated the cost to put a carbon fiber cover with a smaller hole in it over the STR air intake to restrict the old V10 cost one buck. So, in an attempt to reduce costs the FIA implimented a policy that cost $1,191,038,792.47, however, this same reduced performance could have been accomplished for about 1 buck per car so lets say $44. That means the teams could have saved $1,191,038,748.47... but noooooo.
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