Rush2Redline S2000 Autocross/Time Trial Build
04-13-2021, 04:48 AM
#11
Looking good and great job on progress. Anyone who tracks goes off at some point. I've had to see multiple S2000's hit walls at track events and while it's never a good time it's always a good learning experience.
04-13-2021, 07:44 AM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
It's painful to see an S hit a wall. There's the brief moment in your mind while youre sliding and trying to fight to stop the car from completely totaling itself where you think "This could be everything I worked on, gone." I'm glad the damage was cosmetic only!
As you say, it's a learning experience ... that I don't want to repeat. I've been working on the driver mod and autocrossing every weekend to gain more low-risk seat time at the limit.
The car with the MX5 rear swaybar and the current alignment actually understeers (or driver sucks). Which should keep me safe until I make the upgrade to square wheels. I've been waiting for 6 months now on the wheels and the ETA is 8 months.
As you say, it's a learning experience ... that I don't want to repeat. I've been working on the driver mod and autocrossing every weekend to gain more low-risk seat time at the limit.
The car with the MX5 rear swaybar and the current alignment actually understeers (or driver sucks). Which should keep me safe until I make the upgrade to square wheels. I've been waiting for 6 months now on the wheels and the ETA is 8 months.
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Ian300D (04-16-2021)
06-07-2021, 06:45 AM
#13
Registered User
Thread Starter
Track Day Report: On 5/15 I went back to Canaan NH to my baseline track at Canaan Motor Club. The only changes to the set up on this day from the previous were the rear ARB, bushings, and alignment. Other than that, the Driver mod received an entire season of winter iRacing and half a dozen additional Autocrosses. I dropped my lap time from a 1:14.7 to a 1:10.9. I had my instructor drive my car both times and he managed a 1:10.0 (new tires) previously and another 1:10 on the same tires (just more worn). I felt more confident to drive the car harder and catch slides when the car came out of line. I still don't have the control to slide the car through corners at slip angle so there's more driver mod to be had for sure and there are areas of the track where I can I can gain time but I'm satisfied with my progress within the 10 months I've owned her for.
I look at this thread to reaffirm my mission statements for the build so I don't get side tracked. The lap times are merely a measurable validation of the progress I'm making as a driver. Those goals are to become a better driver and to build a reliable track car.
I look at this thread to reaffirm my mission statements for the build so I don't get side tracked. The lap times are merely a measurable validation of the progress I'm making as a driver. Those goals are to become a better driver and to build a reliable track car.
06-07-2021, 07:00 AM
#14
Registered User
Thread Starter
Immediately after the track day at Canaan I began to modify the car.
I decided to install both Karcepts Front Swaybar and JRZ RS Pro Coilovers at the same time. The JRZ's are sprung and valved to 800lbs front and 600lbs rear.
I had no complaints with the Saner bar once matted to Baero endlinks. With Whiteline Endlinks, there was a small bit of rubbing on the OEM brake line holder but the Baero links gave adequate clearance.
I placed the external reservoirs above the radiator shroud. I technically removed the shroud because it looked a little dumb resting on the little plastic piece. This set up did not remain for long.
I decided to install both Karcepts Front Swaybar and JRZ RS Pro Coilovers at the same time. The JRZ's are sprung and valved to 800lbs front and 600lbs rear.
I had no complaints with the Saner bar once matted to Baero endlinks. With Whiteline Endlinks, there was a small bit of rubbing on the OEM brake line holder but the Baero links gave adequate clearance.
I placed the external reservoirs above the radiator shroud. I technically removed the shroud because it looked a little dumb resting on the little plastic piece. This set up did not remain for long.
Last edited by rush2redline; 11-05-2021 at 07:49 AM.
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freddydela (08-17-2021)
07-10-2021, 06:44 PM
#15
Registered User
Thread Starter
Next up is the Password JDM Intake.
I had to relocate the horn under the intake to make space for the left shock canister. I'm strongly considering relocating the cruise control module against the engine cross bar and the Radiator Overflow tank where the right shock canister is. The canister in the front of the radiator stays significantly cooler than the one located in the engine bay and I'd like them to suffer the same heat soak for more consistency.
Also on the car are 255/40/R17 Bridgestone Potenza RE71R's on TRM C3 17x9 +62 rims. A bit common, but they were affordable and they get the job done. The wheels came with Kumho V720's produced from 2015 but the rubber compound was hard. I found myself slower on the older Kumho's in 255/40R17 than on my 215 & 245 OEM Stagger set up with RE71R's.
Tomorrow is the first event with the new tires and I'm hoping to decrease the gap against my competition.
I had to relocate the horn under the intake to make space for the left shock canister. I'm strongly considering relocating the cruise control module against the engine cross bar and the Radiator Overflow tank where the right shock canister is. The canister in the front of the radiator stays significantly cooler than the one located in the engine bay and I'd like them to suffer the same heat soak for more consistency.
Also on the car are 255/40/R17 Bridgestone Potenza RE71R's on TRM C3 17x9 +62 rims. A bit common, but they were affordable and they get the job done. The wheels came with Kumho V720's produced from 2015 but the rubber compound was hard. I found myself slower on the older Kumho's in 255/40R17 than on my 215 & 245 OEM Stagger set up with RE71R's.
Tomorrow is the first event with the new tires and I'm hoping to decrease the gap against my competition.
Last edited by rush2redline; 11-05-2021 at 07:50 AM.
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freddydela (08-17-2021)
07-11-2021, 06:57 PM
#16
Man, those bushings look like a ton of work. Looking good on the end results! New tires will definitely be vastly different. I'll be curious to see what you think of the JRZ's once you get to drive on them.
I just went STR this year with a similar setup (MCS on 850/700) and am very happy with the package. The car just does what you think it should do and I think it's easier to drive. Though it does break away a little quicker, I think the communication is more direct and the response to correction is much quicker and more linear. In stock form, there was that period during correction where you weren't sure if the car was taking to it or not, and that led me to overcorrect until I had more experience. I thought the STR stuff tightened up the communication of all those things happening and makes it much more direct.
I just went STR this year with a similar setup (MCS on 850/700) and am very happy with the package. The car just does what you think it should do and I think it's easier to drive. Though it does break away a little quicker, I think the communication is more direct and the response to correction is much quicker and more linear. In stock form, there was that period during correction where you weren't sure if the car was taking to it or not, and that led me to overcorrect until I had more experience. I thought the STR stuff tightened up the communication of all those things happening and makes it much more direct.
07-13-2021, 10:30 AM
#17
Well we've talked on Facebook a bit funny enough, I just didn't recognize the car without the intake! Have you found a solution for the hood prop or still carrying it around in the trunk?
I had the TRM C3's until recently. I found some Conduit knock-out plugs that fit perfect on them. Just some black + yellow paint would work just since since the TRM center caps seem to melt all the time.
I had the TRM C3's until recently. I found some Conduit knock-out plugs that fit perfect on them. Just some black + yellow paint would work just since since the TRM center caps seem to melt all the time.
07-13-2021, 06:17 PM
#18
Registered User
Thread Starter
Well we've talked on Facebook a bit funny enough, I just didn't recognize the car without the intake! Have you found a solution for the hood prop or still carrying it around in the trunk?
I had the TRM C3's until recently. I found some Conduit knock-out plugs that fit perfect on them. Just some black + yellow paint would work just since since the TRM center caps seem to melt all the time.
I had the TRM C3's until recently. I found some Conduit knock-out plugs that fit perfect on them. Just some black + yellow paint would work just since since the TRM center caps seem to melt all the time.
Man, those bushings look like a ton of work. Looking good on the end results! New tires will definitely be vastly different. I'll be curious to see what you think of the JRZ's once you get to drive on them.
I just went STR this year with a similar setup (MCS on 850/700) and am very happy with the package. The car just does what you think it should do and I think it's easier to drive. Though it does break away a little quicker, I think the communication is more direct and the response to correction is much quicker and more linear. In stock form, there was that period during correction where you weren't sure if the car was taking to it or not, and that led me to overcorrect until I had more experience. I thought the STR stuff tightened up the communication of all those things happening and makes it much more direct.
I just went STR this year with a similar setup (MCS on 850/700) and am very happy with the package. The car just does what you think it should do and I think it's easier to drive. Though it does break away a little quicker, I think the communication is more direct and the response to correction is much quicker and more linear. In stock form, there was that period during correction where you weren't sure if the car was taking to it or not, and that led me to overcorrect until I had more experience. I thought the STR stuff tightened up the communication of all those things happening and makes it much more direct.
What do you mean by it "breaks away a little quicker"? Does the car turn and then suddenly oversteer? A well tuned suspension should feel very predictable and just soak up the bumps while keeping you on the intended line. 850/700 is very stiff, you may be surprised at what lowering some rear rebound can do to keep you more planted. -- But I suck as a driver and I've only been autocrossing for 1 full year. So my opinion may be worth a bag of rocks.
The JRZ's were slower when I first used them. I was frustrated.
Front ARB: Karcepts Bar 1/6
Rear ARB: NC MX5 Bar 1/2
I started at 12/15 Compression 18/24 Rebound Front & Rear. I oversteered like crazy and I spun out a ton.
Front Shocks: Com 12/15 Reb 18/24
Rear Shocks: Com 1/15 Reb 1/24
After talking to some of the more seasoned drivers, they suggested leave the front alone and go full soft in the rear and work your way up until it starts misbehaving. I was limited in what I could accomplish from 6 runs.
Front ARB: Karcepts Bar at 6/6
Rear ARB: NC MX5 Bar
Front Shocks: Com 11/15 Reb 16/24
Rear Shocks: Com 3/15 Reb 6/24
The Kumho's had less grip than worn RE71R's.
Front ARB: Karcepts Bar at 6/6
Rear ARB: NC MX5 Bar
Front Shocks: Com 11/15 Reb 16/24
Rear Shocks: Com 3/15 Reb 6/24
With the RE71R's I can carry a higher average speed through the course. I'm not close to the limit and I finish cornering so quick I start under driving the car. Next event I'm going to start widening my arc and carrying more corner speed because I shouldn't have any straights on an autocross course. I didn't change any settings because I had a co-driver and it wouldn't be fair to adjust settings while she was learning and driving the vehicle.
My codriver ran over a bunch of cones and my rear air brake ducts are broken again. I think I've given up on running them at this point. I'll be looking for the Reily Racing RX8 kit and I'll be raising the car from 12.6" / 12.5" to 13 1/8" / 13.00" .
Last edited by rush2redline; 07-13-2021 at 06:41 PM.
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freddydela (08-17-2021)
07-13-2021, 07:48 PM
#19
By breaking away quicker, I think what I really mean is twofold. It generates more grip in this trim, therefore it has more inertia when it does let go. There is more force in the vector towards the outside of the turn so that when the rear end does begin to slide, the car has more rotational velocity than it did in stock trim. Also, you can transfer the weight to the tires faster with higher spring rates, sway rates, and more compression damping. Therefore, you can overload the tire at a more rapid pace from input to slide. In both instances, I think the car is plenty communicative and responds to corrections quicker and more naturally than before. It's just the nature of the beast when you stiffen things up, add camber, and front tire. In overloading the tire quicker, I think it's much simpler to tell which input ultimately upset the car because you don't have the delay in input to chassis behavior.
As for my springs, I think they have only been a disadvantage on one lot that I ran so far. It had a full circle loop at the beginning of the course with some waviness to the lot. The car bounced around a good bit and I'm sure lost some ultimate grip but the tires weren't bouncing around. It was bouncy but not dramatic and did not cause the car to let go. I increased rebound on both ends, softened compression, mainly in the rear, and that helped a bit. Softer springs would have benefitted on that lot. Otherwise, I don't think they're "too stiff." It's stiffer than a lot of setups but I was recommended those rates by a trusted source and believe some of the previous national champs have won on stiffer rates with less sticky tires (older 200tw). I did have front wheel lift in one of the pics from the event and I wonder how much of the bounce is due to a lack of rebound controlling the stiff front sway. Just an idea I had and I have wondered how the super stiff front sway plays into shock tuning in scenarios like this. If I'm leaned over in a turn and experiencing undulations in my front outside wheel, have I increased the amount of "spring rate" that the damper must control so much that it's outside of my normal setting? Idk the answer to that but just a thought. If I had time to test and tune on a lot like that, I'd be curious to remove a rear end link (no rear bar) and soften up the front commensurately. I wonder how much that would to to assist with absorbing bumps while leaning on the outside wheels.
As for setup stuff, I'm still learning myself. I did essentially copy popular setups on here and discuss with a reputable vendor what would make sense for me. He did change me up a bit, spring rates being one example. One other piece of advice he gave me was that he preferred the rear equal to or higher than the front. I initially proposed 13"/12.75" after seeing others on here running it. I'm at 13" all around and have not experimented otherwise. For shocks, I'm learning that as I go and have read a bit on it. I played around a lot with knobs during test and tunes in the beginning of the year. I'm getting more confident in adjusting things mid-heat but am not quite there in having a full grasp.
You're doing alright out there driving wise. I don't think that any of the times you shifted to third were a net positive. I've done one or two of those this year that I should not have and am beginning to learn my lesson the hard way. There are truly very few places where it is worth shifting up. Looks like you need an ECU with a few more RPMs. Otherwise, I think some of it is just looking/planning ahead. I see that you're getting "behind" in sections and not backsiding some important cones to set up for following sections. I'm 5 years in and it took me until probably my 3rd/4th year to be able to course walk decently. That's always a work in progress but a good course walk helps you look ahead and link sections. I had trouble with the look ahead cue in my first few years and I don't think it's the whole story. In course walks, I make a point to plan "spotting cones." What I mean by that is having a visual cue of which cone my eyes should be looking at when I'm nearing the end of this slalom. Which cone I should be rotating my head to exiting a turn around, etc. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but I think that is what makes looking ahead effective. It's still important to do, but when you're a novice, it's very hard to digest anything meaningfully when you're going through a course. Registering "spotting cones" on a course walk helps to condense the information you gather from looking ahead. You're also coasting in a few places and getting on the throttle late/abruptly exiting turns. All that will come in time as you build confidence and plan runs more accurately on walks.
I'll also throw out a suggestion for the Beyond Seat Time course. It really helps to break down the mental side of things to analyze a course. I'm still working on that and I think it's a constant battle for everyone. Sometimes I think too much and I'm slow. Maybe my plan is bad, maybe I am too rigid in my plan and don't realize where to adjust. Going through that and being able to compare my footage to some of the local fast guys who post to the youtubes is tremendously valuable. Having the background from the course helps you to see things in the video comparison that you may otherwise not. I still need to get data acquisition to complete the toolset.
As for my springs, I think they have only been a disadvantage on one lot that I ran so far. It had a full circle loop at the beginning of the course with some waviness to the lot. The car bounced around a good bit and I'm sure lost some ultimate grip but the tires weren't bouncing around. It was bouncy but not dramatic and did not cause the car to let go. I increased rebound on both ends, softened compression, mainly in the rear, and that helped a bit. Softer springs would have benefitted on that lot. Otherwise, I don't think they're "too stiff." It's stiffer than a lot of setups but I was recommended those rates by a trusted source and believe some of the previous national champs have won on stiffer rates with less sticky tires (older 200tw). I did have front wheel lift in one of the pics from the event and I wonder how much of the bounce is due to a lack of rebound controlling the stiff front sway. Just an idea I had and I have wondered how the super stiff front sway plays into shock tuning in scenarios like this. If I'm leaned over in a turn and experiencing undulations in my front outside wheel, have I increased the amount of "spring rate" that the damper must control so much that it's outside of my normal setting? Idk the answer to that but just a thought. If I had time to test and tune on a lot like that, I'd be curious to remove a rear end link (no rear bar) and soften up the front commensurately. I wonder how much that would to to assist with absorbing bumps while leaning on the outside wheels.
As for setup stuff, I'm still learning myself. I did essentially copy popular setups on here and discuss with a reputable vendor what would make sense for me. He did change me up a bit, spring rates being one example. One other piece of advice he gave me was that he preferred the rear equal to or higher than the front. I initially proposed 13"/12.75" after seeing others on here running it. I'm at 13" all around and have not experimented otherwise. For shocks, I'm learning that as I go and have read a bit on it. I played around a lot with knobs during test and tunes in the beginning of the year. I'm getting more confident in adjusting things mid-heat but am not quite there in having a full grasp.
You're doing alright out there driving wise. I don't think that any of the times you shifted to third were a net positive. I've done one or two of those this year that I should not have and am beginning to learn my lesson the hard way. There are truly very few places where it is worth shifting up. Looks like you need an ECU with a few more RPMs. Otherwise, I think some of it is just looking/planning ahead. I see that you're getting "behind" in sections and not backsiding some important cones to set up for following sections. I'm 5 years in and it took me until probably my 3rd/4th year to be able to course walk decently. That's always a work in progress but a good course walk helps you look ahead and link sections. I had trouble with the look ahead cue in my first few years and I don't think it's the whole story. In course walks, I make a point to plan "spotting cones." What I mean by that is having a visual cue of which cone my eyes should be looking at when I'm nearing the end of this slalom. Which cone I should be rotating my head to exiting a turn around, etc. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but I think that is what makes looking ahead effective. It's still important to do, but when you're a novice, it's very hard to digest anything meaningfully when you're going through a course. Registering "spotting cones" on a course walk helps to condense the information you gather from looking ahead. You're also coasting in a few places and getting on the throttle late/abruptly exiting turns. All that will come in time as you build confidence and plan runs more accurately on walks.
I'll also throw out a suggestion for the Beyond Seat Time course. It really helps to break down the mental side of things to analyze a course. I'm still working on that and I think it's a constant battle for everyone. Sometimes I think too much and I'm slow. Maybe my plan is bad, maybe I am too rigid in my plan and don't realize where to adjust. Going through that and being able to compare my footage to some of the local fast guys who post to the youtubes is tremendously valuable. Having the background from the course helps you to see things in the video comparison that you may otherwise not. I still need to get data acquisition to complete the toolset.
07-14-2021, 12:54 PM
#20
I suggest going through Sake Bomb Garage instead for this kit. They're the ones that originally came up with the kit, and have far more s2000 parts support. Literally, the only product Reily Racing sells is that kit, which seems to support the narrative that Reily Racing copied SBG rather than the other way around. I'm going to guess that SBG will have better support as well. YMMV.