Corner balance
11-13-2006, 01:01 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by tysonCRX,Nov 13 2006, 01:37 PM
not really preload, but by height.
think of a 4 legged stool. legs a,b,c,d. O is the middle. ignore the _.
A_B
_O_
C_D
if you cut the length of leg B short, it will be less balanced and rock easily as it balances on A and D. so then you cut A shorter to match, the stool is now balanced again, even though its sitting at a tilt now. but thats ok, its a better situation than before.
with a car, what you start out with is an uneven stool with completely unequal leg lengths to begin with. youre just figuring out how to balance the cross weights to a more optimal, balanced situation.
think of a 4 legged stool. legs a,b,c,d. O is the middle. ignore the _.
A_B
_O_
C_D
if you cut the length of leg B short, it will be less balanced and rock easily as it balances on A and D. so then you cut A shorter to match, the stool is now balanced again, even though its sitting at a tilt now. but thats ok, its a better situation than before.
with a car, what you start out with is an uneven stool with completely unequal leg lengths to begin with. youre just figuring out how to balance the cross weights to a more optimal, balanced situation.
11-13-2006, 01:08 PM
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some coilovers have independent height adjustment. just adjust the height with no affect to the spring.
some coilovers have no preload because the coil spring is too short anyway. any adjustment is a height adjustment anyway. youll see this with ground controls on konis. if you adjust the perch high enough, you can get the spring to preload.
in that case, and in the case of some coilovers that have long enough springs that they are always preloaded, changing preload will still change ride height, but indirectly as youve forced the spring to push up more force in that corner. ride hieght gain is a function of the spring rate and the actual weight of the car, than simply how much you moved the perch.
having no preload or adjusting it isnt all that big of a deal anyway. until youve preloaded the spring so much there is absolutely no sag when youve dropped the car down. thats not an ideal situation in general. just like in motorcycles, you want a little bit of sag. however, it seems less of an issue with cars than bikes, as we know bike handling is greatly affected by sag. i think that is more in the nature of bikes having only 2 wheels. and quite frankly, any discussion beyond that is beyond me.
some coilovers have no preload because the coil spring is too short anyway. any adjustment is a height adjustment anyway. youll see this with ground controls on konis. if you adjust the perch high enough, you can get the spring to preload.
in that case, and in the case of some coilovers that have long enough springs that they are always preloaded, changing preload will still change ride height, but indirectly as youve forced the spring to push up more force in that corner. ride hieght gain is a function of the spring rate and the actual weight of the car, than simply how much you moved the perch.
having no preload or adjusting it isnt all that big of a deal anyway. until youve preloaded the spring so much there is absolutely no sag when youve dropped the car down. thats not an ideal situation in general. just like in motorcycles, you want a little bit of sag. however, it seems less of an issue with cars than bikes, as we know bike handling is greatly affected by sag. i think that is more in the nature of bikes having only 2 wheels. and quite frankly, any discussion beyond that is beyond me.
11-13-2006, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by AP2Suzuka,Nov 13 2006, 02:01 PM
What is the difference between pre-load and height adjustment?
i cant see doing a corner balance by adjusting the height. if that was true, you'd have uneven gaps on all corners. you'd have to adjust the preload along with the height in order to balance the cars weight plus the cars height.
im not a pro or an engineer at this thing, but it just seems common sense to me.
11-13-2006, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tysonCRX,Nov 13 2006, 02:08 PM
some coilovers have independent height adjustment. just adjust the height with no affect to the spring.
some coilovers have no preload because the coil spring is too short anyway. any adjustment is a height adjustment anyway. youll see this with ground controls on konis. if you adjust the perch high enough, you can get the spring to preload.
in that case, and in the case of some coilovers that have long enough springs that they are always preloaded, changing preload will still change ride height, but indirectly as youve forced the spring to push up more force in that corner. ride hieght gain is a function of the spring rate and the actual weight of the car, than simply how much you moved the perch.
having no preload or adjusting it isnt all that big of a deal anyway. until youve preloaded the spring so much there is absolutely no sag when youve dropped the car down. thats not an ideal situation in general.
some coilovers have no preload because the coil spring is too short anyway. any adjustment is a height adjustment anyway. youll see this with ground controls on konis. if you adjust the perch high enough, you can get the spring to preload.
in that case, and in the case of some coilovers that have long enough springs that they are always preloaded, changing preload will still change ride height, but indirectly as youve forced the spring to push up more force in that corner. ride hieght gain is a function of the spring rate and the actual weight of the car, than simply how much you moved the perch.
having no preload or adjusting it isnt all that big of a deal anyway. until youve preloaded the spring so much there is absolutely no sag when youve dropped the car down. thats not an ideal situation in general.
11-13-2006, 01:15 PM
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if you dont have independent height and preload adjustment, having uneven gaps at each corner is expected after youve completed a proper corner balance.
even ride heights is not an indication of a properly corner balanced car, as no production car is ever balanced in all 4 corners. if it were, then your car would be completely designed even at each corner. which cannot be the case in reality, unless you got a formula 1 budget. especially with a driver sitting on one side of the car.
the types of coilover that have independent height and preload adjustment are like the high end teins with the separate adjustable lower cup. the shock body, which has a separate lower spring perch, threads into the lower cup to change ride height without affecting preload. all the other lower brand copy suspension mimic this as well nowadays. but some are so poorly designed, the lower cup bottoms out anyway, making it pointless.
the point of corner balancing is taking an unevenly balanced production car and making the best of it. but like i said above, the gains are minimal and really not worth it in the end. in my opinion. and besides, honda engineers did a damn good job of balancing out the car in general. theres not much more to gain.
even ride heights is not an indication of a properly corner balanced car, as no production car is ever balanced in all 4 corners. if it were, then your car would be completely designed even at each corner. which cannot be the case in reality, unless you got a formula 1 budget. especially with a driver sitting on one side of the car.
the types of coilover that have independent height and preload adjustment are like the high end teins with the separate adjustable lower cup. the shock body, which has a separate lower spring perch, threads into the lower cup to change ride height without affecting preload. all the other lower brand copy suspension mimic this as well nowadays. but some are so poorly designed, the lower cup bottoms out anyway, making it pointless.
the point of corner balancing is taking an unevenly balanced production car and making the best of it. but like i said above, the gains are minimal and really not worth it in the end. in my opinion. and besides, honda engineers did a damn good job of balancing out the car in general. theres not much more to gain.
11-13-2006, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by alejo,Nov 13 2006, 01:54 PM
in race cars they use ballast as well. - lead weights.
the stool illustration is just that, not exclusively related to only change in ride height. the "length" of the "leg" is simply an allegory to the measured "weight" under each "wheel". sorry for the confusion.