2010 ZR1 vs 2010 911 Turbo
03-12-2010, 11:24 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by Dr. WOT,Mar 12 2010, 03:11 PM
Those are the same track.
Good call!
03-12-2010, 11:38 AM
#23
Originally Posted by Elistan,Mar 12 2010, 11:55 AM
I suspect the transmission differences heavily favor the Porsche in outright acceleration. Not only in shift times, but also in the gearing that the shift times and 7-speed allow for. For example, note that the Corvette's first gear is the same as the Porsche's second gear. With similar redlines (6500 vs 6900) and final drives (3.42 and 3.44) this gives the Porsche significantly more low-speed acceleration, despite a lower power-to-weight ratio. In fact, the ZR1's 1st through 6th gears are substantially similar to the Turbo's 2nd through 7th.
1st gear in the Turbo tops out at 38mhp - that's about halfway between an AP1 and AP2! It'd be ridiculously short gearing for a car with such power - the ZR1 and many other high-power supercars have a first gear that tops out at over 60mph - except with the PDK the shifts are so quick that it doesn't matter that you need to change to second gear in about 1.7 seconds.
1st gear in the Turbo tops out at 38mhp - that's about halfway between an AP1 and AP2! It'd be ridiculously short gearing for a car with such power - the ZR1 and many other high-power supercars have a first gear that tops out at over 60mph - except with the PDK the shifts are so quick that it doesn't matter that you need to change to second gear in about 1.7 seconds.
Porsche really stepped their game up after the release of the GTR.
03-12-2010, 01:32 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by rockville,Mar 12 2010, 02:18 PM
Good point. That first gear was probably selected because the Porsche's AWD system lets it get the power to the road. I think GM gave the ZR1 (and Z06) a longer 1st gear in part because with so much power and only two tires the car can all but spin the tires all the way to 60mph. Basically it's not so much a gearing issue as a traction issue. Since the Porsche does (presumably) have the needed traction the next issue is giving it the optimal ratios.
I cannot find the 911 Turbo 6-speed manual gear ratios anywhere on the web - it'd be interesting to see if Porsche gave it the same short first gear or went with something taller like in the ZR1.
03-12-2010, 01:39 PM
#25
I love it! Porsche is coming out swinging against the ZR1 with the new Turbo, just as the Vette boys came out swinging against Porsche with the ZR1 wiping out even last year's GT2.
So, that just BEGS the question. Will the C7 have a dual-clutch transmission option? Methinks yes and I can't wait. I'll have a hell of a time deciding between my trusty six-speed manual I've had in the '01 Vette and now the '08 Vette or a new dual-clutch tranny from GM. Yum.
So, that just BEGS the question. Will the C7 have a dual-clutch transmission option? Methinks yes and I can't wait. I'll have a hell of a time deciding between my trusty six-speed manual I've had in the '01 Vette and now the '08 Vette or a new dual-clutch tranny from GM. Yum.
03-12-2010, 01:44 PM
#27
I think it'd be awesome to get a Vette with a dual clutch transmission. However, I'm a big fan of their current manual tranny with launch control (and no warranty loss if you use it). That is kind of ideal to me from a fun/fast standpoint.
I just don't trust the dual clutch transmissions yet. Seems like anything that is remotely high performance is showing wear or overheating when used heavily (tracked or launched hard), even in Porsches. Not sure if Ferrari's F1 transmission is durable or not but their cars are way over my budget anyways.
I just don't trust the dual clutch transmissions yet. Seems like anything that is remotely high performance is showing wear or overheating when used heavily (tracked or launched hard), even in Porsches. Not sure if Ferrari's F1 transmission is durable or not but their cars are way over my budget anyways.
03-12-2010, 01:53 PM
#28
Registered User
Found 'em!
Gear - ratio - speed at redline
PDK:
1st - 3.91 - 39
2nd - 2.29 - 66
3rd - 1.58 - 96
4th - 1.18 - 129
5th - 0.94 - 161
6th - 0.79 - 193
7th - 0.62 - 245
Manual:
1st - 3.82 - 40
2nd - 2.14 - 71
3rd - 1.48 - 102
4th - 1.81 - 84
5th - 0.97 - 156
6th - 0.88 - 173
So yeah, the manual has a pretty short first gear as well. Interesting!
Gear - ratio - speed at redline
PDK:
1st - 3.91 - 39
2nd - 2.29 - 66
3rd - 1.58 - 96
4th - 1.18 - 129
5th - 0.94 - 161
6th - 0.79 - 193
7th - 0.62 - 245
Manual:
1st - 3.82 - 40
2nd - 2.14 - 71
3rd - 1.48 - 102
4th - 1.81 - 84
5th - 0.97 - 156
6th - 0.88 - 173
So yeah, the manual has a pretty short first gear as well. Interesting!
03-12-2010, 02:01 PM
#29
Registered User
Originally Posted by QUIKAG,Mar 12 2010, 04:39 PM
I love it! Porsche is coming out swinging against the ZR1 with the new Turbo, just as the Vette boys came out swinging against Porsche with the ZR1 wiping out even last year's GT2.
So, that just BEGS the question. Will the C7 have a dual-clutch transmission option? Methinks yes and I can't wait. I'll have a hell of a time deciding between my trusty six-speed manual I've had in the '01 Vette and now the '08 Vette or a new dual-clutch tranny from GM. Yum.
So, that just BEGS the question. Will the C7 have a dual-clutch transmission option? Methinks yes and I can't wait. I'll have a hell of a time deciding between my trusty six-speed manual I've had in the '01 Vette and now the '08 Vette or a new dual-clutch tranny from GM. Yum.
Are the dual-clutch transmissions smooth enough to be a replacement to an auto for those folks who prefer one over the more performance oriented manual? Anyway, considering what I've read about the percentage of Corvette's sold with auto (ie, nearly all) it certainly would be interesting to see a dual-clutch unit make it in. (Depends on the development/licensing costs, of course.)
03-12-2010, 02:17 PM
#30
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Those ratios on the M6 remind me of the Supra, where 4th isn't the 1:1 (like quite a few other big HP cars), but 5th is.
I think I've always heard about 2/3rd of all Vettes are sold as autos (factoring in manual only models like the Z06). I thought I read verts are exceptionally high (like more than 80%), but I guess that's more of a "cruiser".
Good point though, the older dual clutch setups I've driven were nice to have full auto as a convenience, but kind of clunky using that mode (it was obvious it was intended to have driver interaction).
I think I've always heard about 2/3rd of all Vettes are sold as autos (factoring in manual only models like the Z06). I thought I read verts are exceptionally high (like more than 80%), but I guess that's more of a "cruiser".
Good point though, the older dual clutch setups I've driven were nice to have full auto as a convenience, but kind of clunky using that mode (it was obvious it was intended to have driver interaction).