NFRs2000NYC may have been technically wrong in some aspects (SMG is not an autobox - semi auto, but it's got a clutch that you don't manipulate - and banging off shifts on a true tiptronic is no where like an SMGII shift - nothing like it), but the gist of what he's saying is dead on.

Speaking as an autocrosser - with a car that requires many downshifts to first where competitors can simply leave the car in 2nd (STI's and E46M3s for example), I'd love a true SMG (BMW, F-car, etc) type transmission over my manual. The ability to left foot brake and still downshift would be awesome. Yeah - you can do that with your synchromesh. You can also run to the dealer for lots of tranny rebuilds when you muck it up.

For just a fun road drive - I love my 3 pedals thought. On track, I like the 3 pedals, but would enjoy left foot braking ala F1 and many sports car series (FIA GTs and I believe most ALMS cars) just as much. There's a whole world out there to the skilled left foot braker which includes all sorts of throttle and brake interplay.

Most folks cannot effectively left foot brake. It too is an art. Being able to do that will significantly help corner entry - but you really don't drive at a level that requires that on the street (even if the 'canyon carvers' think they do). Very fast on the street is still off of what is done on track - except for a very small lunatic frindge.

Shifting a manual is dead simple once you've done it a while. Heal and toe, heck even double declutch downshifts become NATURAL. Instintive. They don't prove much. Many here probably do it and don't even notice. Being able to double declutch downshift so smooth no one notices it is awesome, but very few are that good - or even work at it to get that good (ask your passenger if they felt a jerk, as you usually don't).

Sometimes I think people create a badge of honor out of something that's no beans. I learned to shift when I was 11! Anyone can do it (check out how drivers tests are administered in GB). (FWIW - I only have manuals and only intend to buy them in the near future, but don't get the act that a drivers car is only a 5/6 speed manual. Most dedicated race cars are ten times the 'drivers car' an S2000 is - and they are semi-automatic).

We live in a world of ABS and all sorts of drivers aids. Next time you slam on those brakes in the rain in an emergency stop - remember that it's not your great enthusiast skill that's bailing you out, but an electronic system.

 

Sure, but not all shifts are the same. When I said that, I wasn't merely referring to which gear is selected but also the rate at which the clutch is released engine speed variance during the shift.

I had a friend with a modified automatic Firebird that could easily shift faster than a human. In fact it was so fast that the neck-snapping got old real quick. There was a button to select fast shifts or slow shifts, so you didn't have to put up with this while just driving around town. Nice, but with a clutch, I can select an infinite number of settings.

 

SMGs (bmw, ferrari) are faster under all conditons than manuals while offering the comfort and convenience of an auto. And fun, for that matter, is subjective. I'd have more fun pretending i'm an F1 driver (with an SMG) than a manual. If its good enough for F1, its good enough for me. As "vroom" pointed out, it opens up a whole new world of left foot braking and allows for more than 6 gears (new M5). A car like our S with such a narrow powerband would benefit greatly from an SMG with 7gears. If I had an F430 i'd almost certainly opt for the SMG. Those people complaining about SMGs remind me of old people complaining about new technologies. Now those tiptronic bs are just normal automatics and are a completely different story.

 

yeah, buy as an individual gets older and older, those number of settings become less and less due to the diminishing of physical quickness.

 

Vtec, you live in Berkeley and drive an S2000!? I just got back from a weekend trip up there... I could never, EVER picture owning a stick in that city. My buddie's auto SUV was having a hard time on the hills.

 

eh... i can conquer any hill from a complete stop with a manual regardless of steepness... it's really the plethora of broken up roads around here that punishes me.

 

Your view that the S2k and the Elise are drivers cars are correct however I consider them Superstars of Performance which is a big step up above just a drivers car!
Second the Acura TSX is a sports sedan and that fits my criteria of a drivers car.
To me it is a crying shame that there are so many automatic tranny versions running around in Preludes,TSXs,and Infiniti G35 coupe . I can see where a luxury car or a minivan have automatics but so called sporty cars. Come on people what are we thinking?
The Ferrari F360 and F430 transmission is a different story . It is a clutchless manual which some magazines said is even better than a regular manual. I think I could live with this tranny!
I have 5 vehicles and NOT a single One of them is an automatic .

 

I had a hell of a time trying to find a 6MT G35c when it was still commanding wait lists and premiums. It seemed there were 20 automatics for every 6MT. I have six cars, and the only automatic is my wife's Odyssey, which she drives exclusively because she can't drive stick.

 

I do. I was on the track yesterday, and I took a turn in too low of a gear and was near the rev limiter RIGHT at the apex. If I had been in an auto car it would have shifted, and I would have spun. As it was I was able to back, ever so slightly, out of the throttle to hold my speed constand without upseting the balance of the car and shift on the other side of the turn.

Auto, SMG, Tiptronic, autostick it's ALL crap.

 

[QUOTE=ruexp67,Jul 22 2005, 08:07 AM] I do.