Jub

My biggest issue here, and the direction we're heading in, is that we don't even measure emissions anymore. We use OEM certified systems with electronic checks as a proxy for an actual emissions check and the actual sniffers are no longer active in my state. I think the real argument is, should they be able to limit the use/sale of devices just because they do not perfectly match the OEM setup. As per usual, language has been leveraged as a tool to dictate the conversation. ECU tuning has been labeled "emissions defeat devices" and everyone nods and marches in lockstep with that title. This type of framing makes it unable to argue with. Are you not against emissions defeat devices? The framing is garbage. They are not, by nature, emissions defeat devices and OEM systems are not the only way to manage emissions. Shouldn't we care instead about the emissions that are actually coming out as opposed to assuming anything non-OEM is bad? Then we have the subjective issue of what level of emissions is acceptable? Is it each individual has the same threshold per year or is it that my 4 Cyl. is only able to emit so much? Complex topic but I think the root of it is should restrictions be able to be made when it is not proven, in every case, that emissions were increased with these devices? You have a bunch of bureaucrats debating the banning of "emissions defeat devices" when I'm sure 3/4 of them don't understand the plot to begin with. Of course they're going to ban "Emissions defeat devices." Like most of these things, it's more about framing than the actual issue itself. The group proposing the thing has the first jump advantage and it is hard to change anyone's mind after they've already been presented the argument in a certain way.

This will be federal in no time. Don't kid yourselves. Most anyone who has bought a tunable ECU over the last few years is being turned over to the EPA as they go after tuning shops. For those not aware, the EPA is cracking down hard, suing tuning shops around the country for violating the Clean Air Act because they sell tunable ECU's. Again, this is under the guise that they are "Emissions defeat devices." Tuning shops are being fined and asked to turn over lists of end users of the products.

TommyDeVito

Read about this weeks ago. Flash back to stock. Leave Commiefornia check station, pull over at the gas station and reflash.

All this is going to do is get even more Kalifornians to move here and I don’t want that. Too many of them here now trying to turn my state into Kali. Go somewhere else. Go to Han’s island.

TsukubaCody

Wtf is this shit?

@James: You’re right! As someone said, coal rollers and dorks doing the burble/crack/fart tunes really ruined this for everyone.

JamesD89

Yeah I've been reflashing my ECU back to stock every time smog comes up. I'm not concerned about that. I am concerned about whether or not they can/will check to see if the ECU has been reflashed and fail you based on that.

This won't drive me, or the vast majority of CA out of state (because that so-called exodus isn't actually real), but if you let me know what state you live in I'll add it to the list of places I'm considering for an investment property. Maybe get involved in local politics. It'll be fun

Boomer level shit. A shining example of what capitalism is capable of is apparently communist because reasons.

As much as I hate coal rolling and burble tune nerds I don't know if I'm petty enough to say this a good thing.

Jub

If you think this is where it stops, I have a bridge to sell you. It's not just about this one thing, the march is heading in a direction where the outcome is already decided. You have a loophole to pass now but it's still illegal for you to use it. This signifies the death of future tuning products being made for vehicles that were constructed with a VIN. Aftermarket companies will slowly die off. It signals a march towards amateur motorsports (at least in an ICE vehicle) becoming untenable. The EPA is not mandating that tuner shops turn over their client information to send them Christmas cards....

As for the CA comment, I'm not sure how you come up with that one. For 2020, CBS reports a net migration of - 135k in California for only the 12th negative net migration since 1900. I haven't checked their sources entirely but I don't think it's a myth or propaganda that people and companies are leaving in greater numbers than in the past. You're right that it won't be the vast majority as that would take some serious turmoil to accomplish. California is a beautiful state with lots to offer for sure.

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...und-migration/

TheDonEffect

Any tampering with emissions hardware or controlling devices have been illegal in CA since forever, which includes the ECU. Your car warranty will be voided with a tune. This is not news, just something to get people worked up on.

If your state celebrates coal rollers and backfire tunes, hey great, hope they roll pass you and cover your front lawn in thick black smoke while your kids are playing.

Play stupid games, get stupid prizes. My back roads used to never, ever have any cops. The touge types back then at least did their runs in the middle of the night to at least avoid public, now they'll do it on a Saturday midday, crossing double yellows, causing accidents, and then complain why there so many cops and laws. The stupid flavored tobacco laws were in response to ask the vapers, sure kids vaping but also all those asshats who wanted to blow a cloud of strawberry shortcake in the middle of a crowded room.

Inconsiderate dumbasses lead to idiotic politicians making stupid laws.

It's funny, you'd think that with all the people leaving real estate would get cheaper but nope, stays expensive.

​​​​​I wouldn't be surprised if they start citing noticeably modified suspensions, looking at you hella flush and those donks and scrapers. Friggin rims breaking off on the highway, sending a projectile to other motorists. I've seen a wheel crash into a car crushing the roof into the floor of pan.

TommyDeVito

It’s a crock Don. PG&E is still in operation there and gouging citizens on KWH. Not to mention contamination the ground water with chemicals and causing cancer. Does Kali government shut them down? Nah let’s go after people modifying hobby cars and motorcycles.

Then I read it took Bill Maher, the political commentator, 3 years to get his solar panels activated due to all the laws there, corrupt bs. Meanwhile here, in 2014 no less, it took me about 3 months.

Saki GT

I agree - if the goal is clean emissions, that should be all that matters. Not sure why an ECU has to be regulated - either it passes or fails.

TsukubaCody

Heads up, if California was Commiefornia they’d have seized PG&E and cleaned them up themselves. If anything PG&E is American crony capitalism at its highest efficiency.

Maher is a ‘comedian.’ Not a political commentator. Let’s also ignore that most every community in America has zoning ordinances and take time to get approvals.

This thread is so full of slippery slope logical fallacies that I’m putting snow chains on my keyboard.

I agree cars should be hooked up to sniffers. Fall short of ultra low emissions vehicle status and you’re out of luck.

engifineer

Oh there are plenty of reasons that the migration is happening. And it IS happening like you say. That is common knowledge. People that are paid very well at some jobs cannot afford to live near those jobs because of the ridiculously over priced land and housing there. Seriously, people making twice my income that work for places like Google, driving 2+ hours to get to work because they cannot afford to live closer. And worse, all those support businesses like food chains, etc continue to have more and more issues getting workers, because how are those people supposed to afford living in Silicon Valley? Then we get to regulations, which as we all know are a joke in CA. Seriously, anyone that has had to read up on Prop 65 to get a product approved in CA knows why everyone just does not comply with it and puts that dumb warning on everything. The costs of doing business and dealing with rules that make no sense, made up by people with no business creating said rules, is running businesses out. It is not like SpaceX is the only company that will leave. I worked for a company years ago that was then starting to have meetings about how they would eventually phase out multiple mfg facilities over time there and move them. And they made natural products that were not even a pollution concern, but still had decided that CA just did not want anyone to do business there. The state, with all the money that flows through it and all the high tech companies there, is still helping to drain Lake Mead dry all these years later with little sign of creating any new methods for obtaining water (yet again, lets pick on people modifying cars).

The list goes on an on. Plenty of reasons people will continue to leave there. But the issues of cost of living and people working not being able to afford living anywhere near said work is only getting worse, and it seems like the state is 100% oblivious to what they have created. With all the various companies I have work with over recent years out there, it is no secret companies want to leave. It is a common conversation. CA is doing all it can to run people out, so a lot more will leave until it hurts enough for the leaders there to pull their heads out and look at the issues.