Oh. By the way, the EPA might have to change after today's Supreme Court ruling for managing Global Warm.

So GM might not have that much as a choice but to reduce emissions further by bringing the Volt to the market sooner.

According to the ruling, this could be in effect as soon as 3 months. And you know CA will enforce it as soon as possible.

 

It would be really cool if they decided to actually release the volt, but I don't think that they will. I wonder how much it would cost?

 

Can

 

[QUOTE=cdelena,Apr 2 2007, 05:32 PM] Can

 

Martha,

Again, don't buy into the conspiracy theories. Just because an individual says it

 

There were only about 1500 RAV4EV's and most of them have been crushed just like the EV1's. Not enough real world experience to draw conclusions from...

Here is what Toyota says:

"In addition to overall customer acceptance, technical issues tied to electric vehicles remain a major hurdle. Industry practice regards batteries to be at the end of their useful life when capacity decreases to 80% of original capacity. A battery's capacity is the amount of charge that it holds, and is commonly measured by the range of the vehicle. It is cost-prohibitive to replace an EV battery. The cost to replace the battery is more than the value of the vehicle."

 

rockville.

I never say I believe in the GM conspiracy. I just say that GM do not know how to do business. And we should all worry because our tax money is at risk regardless if we are GM supporters or not. If they go down, our tax money will be used to bail out GM's failures... and their employees' retirement pensions.

That EV guy actually has a lot of inside connection with the EV and battery industry. He saw the Tesla before it was anonunced. And test drove some of the EV prototypes, and Fuel Cell cars for that matter.

The next Prius in 2009 is already anounced to use Lithium, so Toyota has enough confidence to go forward. The reason they did not use it on the current one is because Lithium batteries have advanced greatly in the last year or so. DeWalt is using Panasonic's new Lithium battery in their 2007 power tools. And these are the same batteries that will be in the next Prius. The current Prius was release in late 2003. And tooling would probably been planned out way before 2001. So are you saying that Toyota had confidence in 2000 to use Lithium batteries... and Lithium was really started in laptop then?

Do not buy into one recall and say it is bad. If that is the case, then all auto manufacturers are bad and we should never buy them. A123Systems has an YouTube demo of their batteries vs traditional Lithum. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ayuFBDrSg

And you are correct. We do not know if the hype with the next gen Batteries are as claimed. The PhoenixMotor Car EV Truck is using it on their EV Truck/SUV. We will know from fleet (and soon consumer sales) if it really works. At least PG&E has stepped up to test them.

Before my wife bought a Prius, I was just like you. Do not believe in EV is ready. And I am wrong. I love an EV now. I just wish my s2000 has crazy torque with EV motors.

 

I don't think you understood much of what I posted.

Just to hit a few points,

Yes, Li-ion batteries were well established for use in laptops as well as cell phones and other devices in 2000. Most of the changes I've seen in Li-ion technology since I worked in the market about 7 years back have been in reducing price. If you are going to claim the Li-ion batteries have made big advances please let me know what they are. Again, all I've seen is big advances in reducing prices. The big reduction in price is one of the reasons you see those batteries in things like cordless drills. It also helps that Motorola helped the Chinese manufactures improve their cell quality. The Japanese manufactures had to reduce their prices accordingly.

You said GM doesn't understand business. Certainly there is evidence to support that claim but canceling the EV1 program is not part of that evidence. The car lost LOTS of money. How can you say it was a bad idea to kill a huge loss leader? How would it be a good business decision to release the Volt if the battery technology isn't ready for use in a regular production car (and all that entails). Hopefully it will be but I've seen no indications that it is currently ready. It certainly is unfair to criticize GM for delaying the release of the Volt until the battery technology is really ready.

Certainly electric fleet vehicles are certainly a good first step. The manufacture can carefully track the vehicle

 

Regarding Toyota's statement, I do believe replacement costs are part of the problem in designing a viable electric car for sale at a reasonable price. I remember reading a while back that the first generation Prius's transmission, for example, costs around $5000 if it ever needs replacing. I just checked the market pricing for that repair at ConsumerGuide.com, and they have it listed at $8695. And this is for a hybrid that's already been on the market for anywhere from 3-6 years.

I don't know about anyone else, but that's is major pill to swallow. Now, Priuses aren't likely to be raced around, so maybe it's not a big worry. But when that cost comes along, that car's gettin' dumped REAL fast.

Production economies of scale really need to get worked out so the parts and assembly are cheaper. Things are starting to trend that way but we're still very early on in the process.

 

Those costs could be a real issue if the car is in a wreck.