rockville,

I agree with everything you said, except the EV1 dying. Why I said that? Because GM came out and said it was a mistake now. They now know that if they did not kill the EV1 program, which was a very limited money lost venture anyways, they would be leader in EV and hybrid technology now instead of Toyota. And the bi-hybrid is a good start since it is more advanced than the Toyota hybrid system... but will have to wait and see since it is not out yet.

The Volt is nothing more than an EV1 with a gas generator. Of course, there is more software to properly turn on the generator when needed for recharge. However, the principle does not change.

Last week when GM came out and told the public to not bet on the Volt coming out, letters poured into the GM office. The next day, GM rephased that they did not say they are not going to try, but they cannot promise it coming out for certain (with the usual battery limitation). GM at least knows that the public are not giving them a free ride and play politics anymore.

And we should all push them harder to make it happen. If GM does not succeed with the Volt, Toyota has no reason to advance any further either (because Toyota is not promising a PHEV Prius in their next redesign, but did not rule out...waiting for GM's next move).

 

I don't think that means Toyota will stop innovating. After all, THEY brought out the hybrid to begin with. Don't count on them to just stop innovating; it won't happen.

Mechanically, the volt's system is way, way less complex than Toyota's, which is a veritiable cukoo clock. I think that once the battery tech is ready, the Volt-type system will come out on a car.

I don't think GM will be first, though. After all, does a Volt prototype even exist?

 

In all reality it was Honda that had the first hybrid to the US market in the Insight. The Prius didn't come here until 2001. If you're talking worldwide, then yes, Toyota was first.

 

My neighbor had a minor accident with her Prius. The estimate for some reason missed some non-body damage and the car was repaired for about $6K... and only then they discovered some parts of the drive train was damaged. It cost another $9K to get it back on the road. The insurance adjuster took the hit and said they might have totaled it if they had recognized the total repair cost and time to repair up front.

 

Not saying they are going to stop, but no reason to put it in production unless there is competition.

The reason Honda/Toyota developed and released their hybrids because they thought the big3 had money from Uncle Sam to develop the "70 mpg hybrid". So they went forward being scare of US development. We all know now it was free money for the big3 because the "70 mpg hybrid" does not exist after 10 years later. Anything close to the "70 mpg hybrid" that is in the market now is the 30ish hybrid Ford Escape. GM? They got the little plug for power tool, stops the engine on red lights, and calls it a hybrid success.

Now that GM has the 2-mode hybrid in the fall, lets see if they can add to the mpg improvement war.

 

my thoughts exactly. GMs current hybrids are nothing more than an oversized starter with more batteries.

 

However, that oversized starter is a very good idea that more companies should adopt. When you consider the cost vs the mileage benefit the "mild-hybrid" system really is a good idea. I agree that it hardly represents the same sort of technological leap as the "full hybrids" but why should GM receive credit for a system that does a good job of saving gas in city type driving?

Out of curiosity, why does GM receive so much flack for their hybrid program? Ford, Honda and Toyota are the only other companies with any sort of hybrid technology. Nissan is using Toyota parts. While Ford developed their technology independently they got in IP issues with Toyota. In the end they paid Toyota to avoid a legal battle they would likely loose. The Koreans have nothing. The Europeans are planning on using technology developed by GM (well DC and BMW). VW has nothing. Yes, GM on the road hybrid line is no where near Toyota in volume or sophistication. They will at least match Toyota in sophistication when the dual mode systems hit the road. GM is trying and getting crap for it. Others aren't doing anything and are getting a free pass simply because they AREN'T trying.

 

Very True. Other companies are "sort of" getting away.

However, when you start complaining to everyone that has ears, you become the target. Look at Damlier, they still suck with hybrids, but you do not see them screaming up and down.

Making a hybrid is not as easy as it seems. Porsche tried to negoicate with Toyota. Porsche wanted Toyota to source out a lot of their components so Porsche can pick parts they do not know how to make. Toyota said no, and Porsche is failing in making their hybrid work.

Got to give GM credit (or hope so if it works when it comes out) for their 2-mode hybrid. Toyota talked out their arses about hybrid Trucks, and GM is going to deliever a REAL hybrid work truck (and SUVs).

 

It may never happen

 

^^^^ lol Time is a bitch ain't it?