In its purist form yes, however what is going on with AIG is a disgrace............. I owe $600.00 bucks on my credit card this month why doesn't the Govt bail me out?

Our Gov't is not here to bail out failed companies yet it is becoming more and more common.............


We are going of course here, Unions are good, lazy over-paird Unions workers are bad

 

I have been in two unions, both took my money to join and monthly and retirement and kept it when i left. If i wanted to remain active/inactive i would have had to pay more money.

I, like many americans, work with no guarantees. I am self employed and have no union to deal with, yet somehow I am able to make a living in this free economy, like most american's with nobody but whatever laws protecting me.

I see no use for unions in this current economy, yes before they were important, but now they are an extra expense to everyone and inhibit commerce, they take their cut from every worker and self perpetuate themselves. We have laws to protect against abuse, those that choose to take advantage are fired when caught, those who abuse their employees are also sanctioned.

In a competative world there are no unions, only commerce, global economy issues prevail, competition is now worldwide, and unioins add extra expense to products and reduce income to workers who have to pay dues.

I think in this competative economy unions are outdated. Employers should be able to hire and fire, produce or cut production...based on demand and profitability. After all, a company that does not treat its' employees well will have few good workers, less productivity, and ultimately loose out on longevity.

Is there abuse in corporate america? Yes, certainly. Do unions free us from abuse? Not....

I understand the current unionized system, how they work and how they perpetuate and the protections they provide, I also have been an employer who was unionized against my will and ultimately the union decertified themselves due to lack of worker interest.

The union stooges were gansters, with mob like tactics...the national labor relations bord is also a unionized agency, they govern these things! I just treated my employees well, they are indespensible to me, and they know/are treated like their job is as good as it gets, that is the trade off.

Sure, some of what is happening to GM and Ford maybe union related, perhaps leadership is responsible as well. the marketplace will abide.

 

I dunno, I think in my line of work UNIONS are a must, I can list multiple things such as pay, rest, work rules and the UNION airlines lead in every category.........

Again I dont know much about other industries and their Unions

 

Are you not solvent enough to pay your $600 CC bill b/c union dues took precendence?

(BTW, I'm curious - how much are your union dues?)

I have no particular interest in AIG - no stock, options, or friends/family that work there, but IMO the Fed did the right thing by rescuing them. They're a very unique company in the global financial markets, and so many companies/individuals depend on their performance of insurance and derivative obligations that if they failed, our problems would be far worse. What seems like a total financial meltdown in progress is nothing compared to how AIG's failure would compound the problem.

Yes, $85B is a LOT of money, but the American public now owns 80%, and the net cost could decline dramatically if they can turn it around.

 

Funny anecdote regarding AIG. (Not sure if it's true, just something I read.)
Lehman's office in London is theirs under lease. The landlord has insurance on the property in case any of the tenants breaks a lease. Guess who the insurance policy is through? It's turtles all the way down...

 

You are talking about an industry that people fight to get into and do because they love it which is a little different. I also know that a lot of animating in Europe gets exported because of similar labor practices.

On a related note:

My old roommate created commercials and they would fly the production to Australia to do the commercial so they could use non-unionized labor when they needed a lot people because it was cheaper then using a union in the U.S. So it does impact the quantity of work. What happens is that fewer people in the U.S. make more money.

Unionizing in an industry that can easily be moved is a dangerous idea for the worker in the long run. This isn't a theoretical debate, just a comment on the recent history of such moves.

 

[QUOTE=carrera4,Sep 17 2008, 12:57 PM] You are talking about an industry that people fight to get into and do because they love it which is a little different.

 

Unfortunately I think the problems with the US auto industry are pandemic. Some aspects of the UAW union contracts do hurt the competitiveness of the auto industry. Unions do protect underperforming workers, and the UAW worker in general makes an unrealistic amount of money when compared to other professions.

By the same token the US auto industry management has made many poor decisions in the past, and has in the past given lucrative long range benefit packages instead of short term pay increases to the union workers, and this is hurting their competiveness today.

But more important than the Union versus Management issue, in my mind, is the poor design of almost any US automobile. It does not matter how competitive the US automotive industry is in terms of manufacturing automobiles if they can not make a car that people want to buy. I think that the worst aspect of the US automotive industry is the basic design of the car. Beside the corvette, and the volt I can not think of a single US made automobile that I would be excited about owning.

I

 

Joey, with the onset of labor laws during the post great depression era, labor unions have lost their reason for existence and effectiveness. Yes I would love to work for a place where my employment is guaranteed and I would basically have to commit murder to get fired, and then get paid at an above market price rate as well, so I will not sit here and say that I wouldn't like the benefits of a union. But I will say that they have lost their effectiveness, my company is not unioned but if I have a problem with my boss or am treated unfairly, my HR department will react very quickly to my complaints, and if they don't than a personal injury lawyer will. If anyone needs a union it's all the white collar salaried workers who work 80 hour weeks, not the guy who punches in for their assembly line job.
I will even go as far as to say that unions are becoming bad for the average unemployed in the US, they cause the wages to be artificially inflated thereby making companies seeking alternative solutions like outsourcing or changing to machines; in short fewer jobs for everyone, but great situation for those in it. Funny how the domestic companies are outsourcing their work outside the border whereas the japanese makes are bringing them in.
And using AIG and what not is the wrong way to look at it, those companies did not have federal and local laws that they needed to adhere to that could've avoided this situation, and with all these recent failings you can bet that new legislation will pass to make certain business practices harder to do. Also, can't fully blame the CEOs, they were just appeasing the stock holders who tend to be very short sighted especially when everythign around them is going up, I mean seriously, you give a bunch of people loans who usually wouldn't have been able to get a credit card, and then profess that property values will continue its expodential (at the time) upward trend in prices, I mean do you think they really didn't see this coming?
Anyway, UAW=worthless.

 

haha nah the Credit Bill is just an example I dont own CC's they are the devil, I had to learn the hardway.

My Union Dues are 2%