ever feel guilty
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Originally Posted by dombey,Jul 22 2007, 08:31 AM
If that was the point being made, I don't really understand the point. I'm with you; if you take poor people and give them a job that makes them not poor, how can you claim they are poor? It's like he's saying that once poor, always poor, which we all know is BS.
I agree that few people stay in the military for the money (although some I'm sure do, if their alternatives are limited). However, I do think that if you look at the compensation from a "total compensation" standpoint, they probably do make as much or more than average. I don't have any data source to back this up, but here is what I think: a lot of servicemen are able to save a significant amount of money while in the military, because nearly 100% of their cost of living is paid for by the military. So any pay they receive is really unnecessary to get by. So if they are saving even $3,000 per year, that puts them WAY ahead of your median person in the US. And I've known servicemen personally that were able to save 3-4x that, even in their first few years.
I agree that few people stay in the military for the money (although some I'm sure do, if their alternatives are limited). However, I do think that if you look at the compensation from a "total compensation" standpoint, they probably do make as much or more than average. I don't have any data source to back this up, but here is what I think: a lot of servicemen are able to save a significant amount of money while in the military, because nearly 100% of their cost of living is paid for by the military. So any pay they receive is really unnecessary to get by. So if they are saving even $3,000 per year, that puts them WAY ahead of your median person in the US. And I've known servicemen personally that were able to save 3-4x that, even in their first few years.
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From: Scottsdale
Originally Posted by GT_2003,Jul 22 2007, 10:50 AM
well, consider that people were whining about those who don't pay taxes because they don't make enough. If you are in the military and make ~$15K, I don't think you will be paying much in taxes. But I doubt a reasonable person would call that a "free ride."
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From: Scottsdale
Originally Posted by s2kpdx01,Jul 22 2007, 10:50 AM
Scholarships and working...that's how I paid for mine.
Give me a break. That's probably the best ROI investment you can make. Borrow it!
I guess the thing that bothers me is that a lot of people are afraid of borrowing the money, or just really don't enjoy school. That's fine by me, but they aren't exactly putting every last effort into making more money. That's fine too. Just make sure these people are paying taxes instead of living off of the people that DID put the effort in.
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From: Phoenix
[QUOTE]If that was the point being made, I don't really understand the point. I'm with you; if you take poor people and give them a job that makes them not poor, how can you claim they are poor?
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I think people who think they "worked hard" or "busted their asses" and somehow "deserve" to live the high life should:
1. Thank their parents for the opportunities given them.
2. Thank the people paying taxes for the last 20 years to make the education system in the USA one of the best in the world.
3. Meet a few farmers... THOSE GUYS bust ass and have some of the most humble attitudes I've ever seen.
4. STFU, IMHO.
1. Thank their parents for the opportunities given them.
2. Thank the people paying taxes for the last 20 years to make the education system in the USA one of the best in the world.
3. Meet a few farmers... THOSE GUYS bust ass and have some of the most humble attitudes I've ever seen.
4. STFU, IMHO.
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From: Scottsdale
Originally Posted by Slamnasty,Jul 22 2007, 08:58 PM
You're totally missing it. If they feel they have to go into the military to avoid total bankruptcy, or to maintain a thin form of solvency, it's not hard to argue they don't have many choices, or the opportunities others more well-off have.
Loan rates are higher than ever before. I agree totally that it's about as good an ROI as you can get in this life, but when it costs $60k to become a teacher (non-residency rates are 3-4 times resident rates), and then you have to start paying back those loans 6 months out with a job you're only making $25k/yr at, it's understandable why people think just going to school these days is a risky decision, and choose a myriad of other options instead (the aforementioned military service being one way).
Loan rates are higher than ever before. I agree totally that it's about as good an ROI as you can get in this life, but when it costs $60k to become a teacher (non-residency rates are 3-4 times resident rates), and then you have to start paying back those loans 6 months out with a job you're only making $25k/yr at, it's understandable why people think just going to school these days is a risky decision, and choose a myriad of other options instead (the aforementioned military service being one way).
As for teachers, if a person was so scared of taking on debt,
a) why would you want to go to school out of state? (since tuition is so much higher)
b) why would you sign up to become a teacher?
You must have picked the worst case scenario there, no?
And for the record, teachers aren't anywhere near as bad off as everyone thinks - even according to the AFT, the average teacher salary in 2005 was nearly $48,000 and the starting teacher salary was nearly $32,000. http://www.aft.org/salary/index.htm
That is as good a living as many others. True, you'd have a tough time w/ your $60k in school loans, which is why you should go in-state if this is the kind of future earning power you're looking at.
As for the military salaries...it's just politics, man. Whether you're a republican or a democrat, our elected officials still didn't get raises for our servicemen.
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From: LA
Originally Posted by CKit,Jul 23 2007, 01:58 AM
I think people who think they "worked hard" or "busted their asses" and somehow "deserve" to live the high life should:
1. Thank their parents for the opportunities given them.
2. Thank the people paying taxes for the last 20 years to make the education system in the USA one of the best in the world.
3. Meet a few farmers... THOSE GUYS bust ass and have some of the most humble attitudes I've ever seen.
4. STFU, IMHO.
1. Thank their parents for the opportunities given them.
2. Thank the people paying taxes for the last 20 years to make the education system in the USA one of the best in the world.
3. Meet a few farmers... THOSE GUYS bust ass and have some of the most humble attitudes I've ever seen.
4. STFU, IMHO.
2. One of the best in the world? Yeah next to a 3rd world country. Do you know our rankings in math scores? Google it.
3. Everybody thinks they are "hard working," not to say farmers aren't. But you can't say farmers work harder than an investment banker staying up 20 hours for a RFP they just received. Yeah one requires more physical labor but definitely doesn't count the latter out.
4. Okay
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From: Phoenix
I think people who think they "worked hard" or "busted their asses" and somehow "deserve" to live the high life should:
1. Thank their parents for the opportunities given them...
1. Thank their parents for the opportunities given them...
...2. Thank the people paying taxes for the last 20 years to make the education system in the USA one of the best in the world...
...3. Meet a few farmers... THOSE GUYS bust ass and have some of the most humble attitudes I've ever seen...
...4. STFU, IMHO.
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From: Erock's my boat!
sure i do, but what can i do about it?
what should i do about it?
for the most part, i thank my lucky stars, thank my parents for the opportunities they've provided, thank my country, and move on....
what should i do about it?
for the most part, i thank my lucky stars, thank my parents for the opportunities they've provided, thank my country, and move on....