F1: BAR Honda could be disqualified!
05-04-2005, 07:15 AM
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more background
BAR Honda face possible exclusion
'Secret fuel tank' key for the ICA
Photo F1-Live.com
ICA will determine whether the 007 was legal
BAR Honda team face a possible ban for cheating when they appeared before motor racing's International Court of Appeal on Wednesday. The team have been ordered to prove they did nothing illegal when the Briton claimed third place in last month's San Marino Grand Prix.
The FIA has appealed against a decision by the Imola track scrutineers who found Button's BAR conformed to the legal minimum weight limit. If it can be proved they cheated in using fuel as illegal ballast, they could be thrown out of the world championship. When the car was weighed immediately after the race it was found to be above the weight limit but it was below the limit when the fuel tank was drained.
FIA scrutineers at the track accepted BAR's explanation but the FIA, suspecting the car was loaded with petrol as ballast, has put the case before the FIA International Court of Appeal in Paris. The FIA has come down on cheating in the past. 1995 defending champions Toyota were thrown out of the World Rally Championship for using an illegal turbo-charger.
"If somebody is caught cheating, they will be out of the championship," said Max Mosley, the FIA President, before the start of the season. "And it doesn't matter who it is - whether it's Ferrari, Minardi or anybody in between. It has to be like that."
There has been speculation that the FIA was tipped off about BAR's so-called 'secret fuel tank' by former employees who are now working for a rival team. But if BAR were banned that would leave only 18 cars on the starting grid for the remainder of the 2005 season and possibly mean top teams having to field a third car to make up the numbers agreed between the race organisers and Formula One Management.
The verdict will be published on Thursday.
BAR Honda face possible exclusion
'Secret fuel tank' key for the ICA
Photo F1-Live.com
ICA will determine whether the 007 was legal
BAR Honda team face a possible ban for cheating when they appeared before motor racing's International Court of Appeal on Wednesday. The team have been ordered to prove they did nothing illegal when the Briton claimed third place in last month's San Marino Grand Prix.
The FIA has appealed against a decision by the Imola track scrutineers who found Button's BAR conformed to the legal minimum weight limit. If it can be proved they cheated in using fuel as illegal ballast, they could be thrown out of the world championship. When the car was weighed immediately after the race it was found to be above the weight limit but it was below the limit when the fuel tank was drained.
FIA scrutineers at the track accepted BAR's explanation but the FIA, suspecting the car was loaded with petrol as ballast, has put the case before the FIA International Court of Appeal in Paris. The FIA has come down on cheating in the past. 1995 defending champions Toyota were thrown out of the World Rally Championship for using an illegal turbo-charger.
"If somebody is caught cheating, they will be out of the championship," said Max Mosley, the FIA President, before the start of the season. "And it doesn't matter who it is - whether it's Ferrari, Minardi or anybody in between. It has to be like that."
There has been speculation that the FIA was tipped off about BAR's so-called 'secret fuel tank' by former employees who are now working for a rival team. But if BAR were banned that would leave only 18 cars on the starting grid for the remainder of the 2005 season and possibly mean top teams having to field a third car to make up the numbers agreed between the race organisers and Formula One Management.
The verdict will be published on Thursday.
05-04-2005, 07:58 AM
#12
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Hmm... When BMW ran too-large brake ducts at Canada last year, why wasn't that considered "cheating"? Did the FIA simply classify it as an honest mistake, thereby warranting exclusion only from that one race and not the entire chamionship?
05-04-2005, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Slithr,May 4 2005, 12:27 PM
Little help here. I can't see where using fuel as ballast would be an advantage unless you ran underweight at some point in the race. Am I missing something?
05-04-2005, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by NJTom2000,May 4 2005, 12:34 PM
Nope, you are not missing anything. You hit it right on the head. BAR is accused of running below minimum weight during the race. The accusation says that they did this buy using extra fuel as ballast and letting it burn off during the race.
this is all very interesting stuff.... i guess we'll all find out soon..
05-04-2005, 11:31 AM
#17
Former Moderator
Originally Posted by blue03s2k,May 4 2005, 01:12 PM
thats just stupid... cuase they knew their car would be weighed in at the end of the race.....
this is all very interesting stuff.... i guess we'll all find out soon..
this is all very interesting stuff.... i guess we'll all find out soon..
Depending on how the rule is actually written, this "hidden fuel tank" thing (if present) would be either a very savvy move taking advantage of a loophole, or a very brazen attempt to sneak past a regulation.
05-04-2005, 12:04 PM
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^ i understand the weight advantage but what i'm saying is....
if they know the car will be weighed at the end of the race... and the fuel being drained... then it's a stupid movie....
as stated above. the extra fuel cell is full of fuel at start and then it burns off this fuel as the race goes on....in return giving you a weight advantage....
if this secret fuel cell is used to make the weight requirement at the begining of the race then fine.. but as the fuel is being burned you will lose weight and by the end of the race that weight will not be there.....
if they know the car will be weighed at the end of the race... and the fuel being drained... then it's a stupid movie....
as stated above. the extra fuel cell is full of fuel at start and then it burns off this fuel as the race goes on....in return giving you a weight advantage....
if this secret fuel cell is used to make the weight requirement at the begining of the race then fine.. but as the fuel is being burned you will lose weight and by the end of the race that weight will not be there.....
05-04-2005, 12:11 PM
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Bernie seems convinced that BAR is guilty. The hearing took place today. We'll find out the outcome Thursday.
Via F1-Live.com
Ecclestone claims BAR Honda have no excuse
'You have to assume they'll be found guilty'
Photo F1-Live.com
BAR's Nick Fry and his documents:
Enough to win this case?
Formula One Management President Bernie Ecclestone insisted that a fine is not enough if BAR Honda are found guilty of deliberately breaking the rules. The ruling will be announced on Thursday but Ecclestone for one would have little sympathy should the guilty verdict come in.
"If you can do that why doesn't a team at the beginning of the season give over a cheque and say if I'm caught cash the cheque," said Ecclestone. "There are a million things you could do. I suppose if they are not excluded from the championship you could say the constructor cannot score points in the championship and maybe the driver is excluded from the points he has now and all the other ones count."
Ecclestone offered little hope for a not guilty verdict for BAR, who continue to protest their innocence.
"With the information that's available, you have to assume they'll be found guilty," he claimed. "There's always a reason for these things - it's never a mistake. If they said they had a problem and they needed a particular part to overcome a particular problem, they would have gone to the FIA."
Via F1-Live.com
Ecclestone claims BAR Honda have no excuse
'You have to assume they'll be found guilty'
Photo F1-Live.com
BAR's Nick Fry and his documents:
Enough to win this case?
Formula One Management President Bernie Ecclestone insisted that a fine is not enough if BAR Honda are found guilty of deliberately breaking the rules. The ruling will be announced on Thursday but Ecclestone for one would have little sympathy should the guilty verdict come in.
"If you can do that why doesn't a team at the beginning of the season give over a cheque and say if I'm caught cash the cheque," said Ecclestone. "There are a million things you could do. I suppose if they are not excluded from the championship you could say the constructor cannot score points in the championship and maybe the driver is excluded from the points he has now and all the other ones count."
Ecclestone offered little hope for a not guilty verdict for BAR, who continue to protest their innocence.
"With the information that's available, you have to assume they'll be found guilty," he claimed. "There's always a reason for these things - it's never a mistake. If they said they had a problem and they needed a particular part to overcome a particular problem, they would have gone to the FIA."
