GM & Ford Downgraded to Junk
05-05-2005, 02:39 PM
#11
its just all those other foreign companies taking over car sales. bmw, audi, infiniti, lexus, honda, nissan, you see more of them on the road than anything else!
could this also be because of the drop in the dollar?
could this also be because of the drop in the dollar?
05-05-2005, 03:44 PM
#12
Registered User
IMO
The UAW is at the root of the problem. Not 100% but I'll give you maybe 10 foreign manufacturers building profitably in the US and they're all non-union.
The union says they don't want to give up consessions ie. free health care, the retirees want free health care for life.
They are responsible for $6 billion a year for health care for GM.
I'll tell you Walmart doesn't give out $6 Billion in health care.
I'd like to see GM lock-out the union see what kind of jobs are out there for non-college grads. They'll come begging for their jobs with much less benifits.
The UAW is at the root of the problem. Not 100% but I'll give you maybe 10 foreign manufacturers building profitably in the US and they're all non-union.
The union says they don't want to give up consessions ie. free health care, the retirees want free health care for life.
They are responsible for $6 billion a year for health care for GM.
I'll tell you Walmart doesn't give out $6 Billion in health care.
I'd like to see GM lock-out the union see what kind of jobs are out there for non-college grads. They'll come begging for their jobs with much less benifits.
05-05-2005, 05:24 PM
#13
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I will agree that UAW is going to have to give some (more than a little) to let GM and Ford get back from the brink a little. They can't keep demanding flat benefits or increases in them when GM keeps posting bad news.
To that end however, GM officially stopped building cars Americans wanted 30 years ago. I could pretty much say the same for Ford. The Mustang and the Vette are the only American stalwarts anyone respects or gives a crap about anymore.
To that end however, GM officially stopped building cars Americans wanted 30 years ago. I could pretty much say the same for Ford. The Mustang and the Vette are the only American stalwarts anyone respects or gives a crap about anymore.
05-05-2005, 05:25 PM
#14
Hate to see GM and Ford keep getting kicked when they are down but they still don't make anything that appeals to me (C6 excluded but I can't afford one anywho).
Keep making gas guzzling hulks when the handwriting is on the wall and see how long you last. Hey, we really should dump more money into developing more Hummers!!!! They are selling like hotcakes!!!!
Keep making gas guzzling hulks when the handwriting is on the wall and see how long you last. Hey, we really should dump more money into developing more Hummers!!!! They are selling like hotcakes!!!!
05-05-2005, 05:45 PM
#15
Registered User
Originally Posted by rai,May 5 2005, 06:44 PM
IMO
The UAW is at the root of the problem. Not 100% but I'll give you maybe 10 foreign manufacturers building profitably in the US and they're all non-union.
The union says they don't want to give up consessions ie. free health care, the retirees want free health care for life.
They are responsible for $6 billion a year for health care for GM.
I'll tell you Walmart doesn't give out $6 Billion in health care.
I'd like to see GM lock-out the union see what kind of jobs are out there for non-college grads. They'll come begging for their jobs with much less benifits.
The UAW is at the root of the problem. Not 100% but I'll give you maybe 10 foreign manufacturers building profitably in the US and they're all non-union.
The union says they don't want to give up consessions ie. free health care, the retirees want free health care for life.
They are responsible for $6 billion a year for health care for GM.
I'll tell you Walmart doesn't give out $6 Billion in health care.
I'd like to see GM lock-out the union see what kind of jobs are out there for non-college grads. They'll come begging for their jobs with much less benifits.
to unreasonable unions.
05-05-2005, 07:58 PM
#16
Registered User
Originally Posted by Slamnasty,May 5 2005, 04:57 PM
He affected their daily bottom line enough to add $5 to their stock price in one day.
Not that we're in the same sort of situation, but when ultra-rich folks attempt to increase everybody's confidence in something by buying lots of it, that indicates to me some serious issues at the heart of the matter. Just having a positive feeling about GM isn't going to do squat to make them profitable.
05-06-2005, 05:54 AM
#18
I love all the financial and management wizards in here.
Let me guess, The Hoth, is Peter Drucker, and Palmateer is Carlos Ghosn? Who is Jack Welch? How about Warren Buffet?
Some of you have valid comments to contribute, but the rest of you just run your suck and talk shit like you have something on the management team at GM. Those guys are and will continue to be more successful and more intelligent than you asswipes will ever be.
Quit acting like you know how to run one of the largest companies in the world.
Those of you offended by my comments...if the shoe fits.
Let me guess, The Hoth, is Peter Drucker, and Palmateer is Carlos Ghosn? Who is Jack Welch? How about Warren Buffet?
Some of you have valid comments to contribute, but the rest of you just run your suck and talk shit like you have something on the management team at GM. Those guys are and will continue to be more successful and more intelligent than you asswipes will ever be.
Quit acting like you know how to run one of the largest companies in the world.
Those of you offended by my comments...if the shoe fits.
05-06-2005, 06:05 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by Elistan,May 5 2005, 07:58 PM
Didn't the ultra-rich try the exact same tactic in trying to prop up the stock market just before October 24, 1929? (Black Tuesday, when the Great Depression essentially started.)
Not that we're in the same sort of situation, but when ultra-rich folks attempt to increase everybody's confidence in something by buying lots of it, that indicates to me some serious issues at the heart of the matter. Just having a positive feeling about GM isn't going to do squat to make them profitable.
Not that we're in the same sort of situation, but when ultra-rich folks attempt to increase everybody's confidence in something by buying lots of it, that indicates to me some serious issues at the heart of the matter. Just having a positive feeling about GM isn't going to do squat to make them profitable.
05-06-2005, 06:06 AM
#20
GM and Ford paper was already trading at junk levels so this change just recognizes it. It has an impact in the debt marketplace because many can / will not hold paper rated that low.
The domestics have had many problems but clearly the one that is becoming more clear is the union contracts that they have agreed to over the years. The cost to build any GM car is more than $1000 more than others just to cover UAW benefits. This handicap forces concessions in the design, construction, and sales that the non-union manufacturers do not have to make.
This is one more pressure on the domestics that they must overcome to survive. Have to hope they find the handle to turn it around.. it is a much bigger problem than a few design issues that are often pointed to in the press and here.
The domestics have had many problems but clearly the one that is becoming more clear is the union contracts that they have agreed to over the years. The cost to build any GM car is more than $1000 more than others just to cover UAW benefits. This handicap forces concessions in the design, construction, and sales that the non-union manufacturers do not have to make.
This is one more pressure on the domestics that they must overcome to survive. Have to hope they find the handle to turn it around.. it is a much bigger problem than a few design issues that are often pointed to in the press and here.