GTR vs 911
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From: Sewell, NJ
Rai, I think you are right about the weight. Porsche has room to shrink by switching to more aluminum intensive chassis and carbon fibre body pieces. They have a little upside left in power in the current flat six design but weight savings will become more cost effective sooner rather than later.
Porsche doesn't really need to do anything for pricing and options until the consumer decides they won't pay for it. Porsche being the most profitable car company in the world leaves them alot of wiggle room to make changes or develop new product. Nissan could only hope to make as much on every car as Porsche, but that is a pipe dream.
New driver for 911 please. What happened to Gan-San? All those tail happy shenanigans killed exit speed and hurt top speed on straights. They also need to run at a bigger track like Fuji so the cars can stretch there legs.
Porsche doesn't really need to do anything for pricing and options until the consumer decides they won't pay for it. Porsche being the most profitable car company in the world leaves them alot of wiggle room to make changes or develop new product. Nissan could only hope to make as much on every car as Porsche, but that is a pipe dream.
New driver for 911 please. What happened to Gan-San? All those tail happy shenanigans killed exit speed and hurt top speed on straights. They also need to run at a bigger track like Fuji so the cars can stretch there legs.
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From: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted by overst33r,Jan 15 2008, 07:34 AM
It is Tiptronic because Porsche claims it is faster than the manual. Also, the GT-R is not manual so it is only fair to compare apples to apples.
The 911TT is faster to 60 mph with the automatic because the automatic allows you to build boost before launch. That's it. In any kind of dynamic acceleration situation, the automatic is still subject to the laws of physics, which is to say it's slower due to its greater drivetrain losses and weight.
The 911TT's Tiptronic is a viscous coupling-based automatic with paddles that allow you to select gears manually. The GT-R's transmission is a dual-clutch manual. The GT-R's manual is inherently more efficient than the 911's automatic. An apples to apples comparison would have involved both cars having manual transmissions.
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From: Westfield, NJ
Impressive from the GTR, I don't think the 997 driver was quite in the same league though. I saw more than one missed (early) apex, and it didn't look like he was terribly smooth on corner exits.
Don't know if that would have changed the result.
Don't know if that would have changed the result.
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From: Tampa Florida
Originally Posted by rai,Jan 15 2008, 08:14 AM
I think Porsche is at a cross-road. Are they going to be Aston Martin-like? Or are they going to do something with the price/performance gap that exists?
I am talking about:
Cayman S costs same as the Z06
911S costs $90K with similar performance to the $45K Vette
911 turbo costs $130K with similar performance to a $70K GTR
I am not saying the Porsche cars are bad, but it's possible for other cars to catch-up. Given time it's possible the Vette will be more than just a great car "for the money".
Back to the late-80s early 90s Porsche had a 240hp front engine 968 which was priced at $50K (ish) with the arival of RX-7, 300ZX, Supra, NSX etc.. the Porsche may have seemed overprice or underpower. Also in the past Porsche has had down turns when people didn't feel they were worth the price and sales numbers were about a tenth of what they are now. It's possible their $20K unit profits are going to grate on people by charging extra for HIDs in a $80K car for example.
I hope Porsche has some products in the work that will be more than just a slight 10hp power bump for the Cayman S or the 911S with largely unchanged structure.
Porsche has the chance being lower weight in the market, if their cars to switch to low weight materials (such as the Z06 has for it's frame). I think the future belongs more than just big power which we have next should be cutting vehicle weight and Porsche has a head start with it's cars being lower weight to begin with with conventional steel structure a switch to more aluminum could do wonders.
cutting weight means you could get more performance for less fuel and substantial dynamic benifits as well with smaller tires, brakes etc..
I am talking about:
Cayman S costs same as the Z06
911S costs $90K with similar performance to the $45K Vette
911 turbo costs $130K with similar performance to a $70K GTR
I am not saying the Porsche cars are bad, but it's possible for other cars to catch-up. Given time it's possible the Vette will be more than just a great car "for the money".
Back to the late-80s early 90s Porsche had a 240hp front engine 968 which was priced at $50K (ish) with the arival of RX-7, 300ZX, Supra, NSX etc.. the Porsche may have seemed overprice or underpower. Also in the past Porsche has had down turns when people didn't feel they were worth the price and sales numbers were about a tenth of what they are now. It's possible their $20K unit profits are going to grate on people by charging extra for HIDs in a $80K car for example.
I hope Porsche has some products in the work that will be more than just a slight 10hp power bump for the Cayman S or the 911S with largely unchanged structure.
Porsche has the chance being lower weight in the market, if their cars to switch to low weight materials (such as the Z06 has for it's frame). I think the future belongs more than just big power which we have next should be cutting vehicle weight and Porsche has a head start with it's cars being lower weight to begin with with conventional steel structure a switch to more aluminum could do wonders.
cutting weight means you could get more performance for less fuel and substantial dynamic benifits as well with smaller tires, brakes etc..
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From: Palm Harbor, FL
Originally Posted by AssassinJN,Jan 15 2008, 08:39 AM
Check out the Nurembergring times if there is any doubt to which is faster.
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From: Scottsdale
Originally Posted by wills2k106,Jan 15 2008, 07:55 AM
Rai, I think you are right about the weight. Porsche has room to shrink by switching to more aluminum intensive chassis and carbon fibre body pieces. They have a little upside left in power in the current flat six design but weight savings will become more cost effective sooner rather than later.
Porsche doesn't really need to do anything for pricing and options until the consumer decides they won't pay for it. Porsche being the most profitable car company in the world leaves them alot of wiggle room to make changes or develop new product.
Porsche doesn't really need to do anything for pricing and options until the consumer decides they won't pay for it. Porsche being the most profitable car company in the world leaves them alot of wiggle room to make changes or develop new product.
Also keep in mind that Porsche has made big step change in the past. E.g., they went to water cooling. Then they build a mid-engine platform. Then they put a V10 in their CGT. Then they built an SUV.... point is, they tend to change things that a lot of people say they will never change. They just don't do it until there is nothing left to squeeze out of it at reasonable cost. Given that they are still making money hand over fist, I don't think we're to that point yet.
I can easily see Porsche redeveloping their 6 cylinders, or even launching a completely new engine. I can also see more exotic weight saving materials as has already been mentioned. Anything is possible w/ enough money, and Porsche has plenty of it. Exciting times for the someday Porsche owners.
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From: Westfield, NJ
Originally Posted by overst33r,Jan 15 2008, 12:44 PM
The times are worthless... Until they are compared on the 'ring by the same driver on the same day it is all speculation.
