It's fast
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The PCOTY lap times were by a journalist. I'd bet the time difference between the ACR and the 488 would be greater with a pro.
If the P1 was part of this comparison, I suspect it would easily beat the ACR in lap times alone. Not enough to justify the price difference, but diminishing returns apply to most things, especially cars.
The 488GTB is probably the most technically advanced car of the group, and the most powerful by a tad. It loses out to the slightly less powerful Z06 and ACR in lap times because it's much more compromised as a track car. It's plush and more usable on the road.
It all depends on what your cup of tea is. The ACR is stiff and comparatively lacking in refinement, the 488 is comfy yet not much slower, and the Z06 is somewhere in between (probably a bit closer to the ACR). The ACR isn't a racecar, but it certainly is a hardcore track car that's ill-suited for daily driver duty. Of course, I haven't driven any of these cars, so I'm basing my conclusions on major publications/reviews and a bit of good old-fashioned common sense.
Originally Posted by Zygrene' timestamp='1447103991' post='23799199
[quote name='rob-2' timestamp='1447099811' post='23799063']
Yet not the most powerful or most technically advanced.
Have you all seen a p1 in track mode vs regular?
Yet not the most powerful or most technically advanced.
Have you all seen a p1 in track mode vs regular?
The 488GTB is probably the most technically advanced car of the group, and the most powerful by a tad. It loses out to the slightly less powerful Z06 and ACR in lap times because it's much more compromised as a track car. It's plush and more usable on the road.
It all depends on what your cup of tea is. The ACR is stiff and comparatively lacking in refinement, the 488 is comfy yet not much slower, and the Z06 is somewhere in between (probably a bit closer to the ACR). The ACR isn't a racecar, but it certainly is a hardcore track car that's ill-suited for daily driver duty. Of course, I haven't driven any of these cars, so I'm basing my conclusions on major publications/reviews and a bit of good old-fashioned common sense.
http://wot.motortrend.com/wrecking_t...guna_seca.html
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Wow, so the ACR beat the P1 and 918 at Laguna. Nice. Looks like the tires, aero, and brakes overcame the power deficit. Now I wonder specifically how much difference the tires made alone. Not only width (295/355 is crazy for a street car) but also compound. The Cup 2's on the 918 and Trofeo R's on the P1 are already serious tires.
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Just give the guys credit. They are hitting well above their price point. You can point to tires, or super stiff suspension. We're all aware it's the sum of the package. It's beating million dollar techno wizardy.
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Originally Posted by juntsky' timestamp='1446872438' post='23797259
i didnt read all of what Mr.EG said, but i'm gonna go ahead and support more racecar than streetcar. Having seen the ACR and the GTD vipers, the ACR was more of everything and the only thing that would make it a "street car" over a racecar is the fact that it has a full interior. Ok, it probably doesn't fit into any specific category of racecar, but that doesn't take away the fact that the ACR has more absurd aero, power, etc than probably 99% of cars out today.
So, you're basically saying, "I didn't bother reading anything that would contradict my worldview, but this is my worldview"?
no, not at all. I stated an opinion. Based on the quick sentence or two I read in the short time I had, it seemed you were trying to say its not a race car because it doesn't fit any category. If that's accurate, then sure, by that definition you're absolutely correct.
However, by that definition the Zonda R isn't a race car, nor is the FXXK or any of the other special flagship race cars ferrrari makes. however they're certainly not street legal. I'd call that a race car. Not by the book definition, but they're certainly not street cars.
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I'm not denying the guys credit for building a car that can beat a P1 and 918 around multiple tracks for a fraction of the price. I just want to know how much credit the tires deserve for doing so.
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I sort of agree. The Zonda R and FXX are racecars that don't conform to any race class. But the Viper ACR is not even close to the same spec or level of build as those two. If the Viper was built to that extent (and I don't mean carbon fiber tubs and inboard suspension, rather I mean gutted interiors, standalone ECUs, telemetry, fire suppression, etc.) then I would definitely say that it's a racecar and not a production car with some track car bits.
Let's look at it a different way. If I bought a Honda Civic off the showroom floor and literally added the ACR's rear aerofoil, front splutter, and suspension (the "raciest" parts on the ACR), that wouldn't make the Civic a race car. It would be a street car with some go-fast parts on it.But if I took a Civic off the showroom floor, gutted it, put a cage in it, removed all the airbags, seatbelts, check engine lights, OBDII system, rubber bushings, glass windows, etc., put some slicks on it, added a fire suppression setup, so on and so forth, that would be a race car and not a street car with some go-fast parts.
The Viper is one hell of a street car that has the performance that rivals many real-deal racecars, but that doesn't make it a racecar. What makes something a racecar is the multitude of equipment that only provides utility in a race setting, most of which doesn't even lend itself to outright speed so much as to race track driving.
Additionally, the Viper's performance envelope shouldn't be part of the discussion, really. If you go back to any era of the automobile, you will find some super car that runs circles around legitimate racecars, yet we don't conclude that any of those cars are "racecars with license plates." No, we recognize them as fast production cars.
Let's look at it a different way. If I bought a Honda Civic off the showroom floor and literally added the ACR's rear aerofoil, front splutter, and suspension (the "raciest" parts on the ACR), that wouldn't make the Civic a race car. It would be a street car with some go-fast parts on it.But if I took a Civic off the showroom floor, gutted it, put a cage in it, removed all the airbags, seatbelts, check engine lights, OBDII system, rubber bushings, glass windows, etc., put some slicks on it, added a fire suppression setup, so on and so forth, that would be a race car and not a street car with some go-fast parts.
The Viper is one hell of a street car that has the performance that rivals many real-deal racecars, but that doesn't make it a racecar. What makes something a racecar is the multitude of equipment that only provides utility in a race setting, most of which doesn't even lend itself to outright speed so much as to race track driving.
Additionally, the Viper's performance envelope shouldn't be part of the discussion, really. If you go back to any era of the automobile, you will find some super car that runs circles around legitimate racecars, yet we don't conclude that any of those cars are "racecars with license plates." No, we recognize them as fast production cars.
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From: SoFlo
Originally Posted by rob-2' timestamp='1447120330' post='23799483
Just give the guys credit. They are hitting well above their price point. You can point to tires, or super stiff suspension. We're all aware it's the sum of the package. It's beating million dollar techno wizardy.
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Originally Posted by Zygrene' timestamp='1447127280' post='23799564
[quote name='rob-2' timestamp='1447120330' post='23799483']
Just give the guys credit. They are hitting well above their price point. You can point to tires, or super stiff suspension. We're all aware it's the sum of the package. It's beating million dollar techno wizardy.
Just give the guys credit. They are hitting well above their price point. You can point to tires, or super stiff suspension. We're all aware it's the sum of the package. It's beating million dollar techno wizardy.
[/quote]
The P1 produces 600 kg (1322 lbs) of downforce at 160 mph. The ACR produces 1800 lbs at 177 mph. I'm no physics expert but isn't downforce loosely proportional to velocity squared? In which case the ACR produces ~22% more downforce at 177 mph than it does at 160 mph, meaning it should produce around 1470 lbs at 160 mph. That's sort of in the same ballpark as the P1, which leads me to believe the tires (size, compound, or both) perhaps give the ACR as much (or more) of an edge vs downforce.
Purely conjecture but it's very interesting to think about.
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Originally Posted by rob-2' timestamp='1447120330' post='23799483
Just give the guys credit. They are hitting well above their price point. You can point to tires, or super stiff suspension. We're all aware it's the sum of the package. It's beating million dollar techno wizardy.