LF-A for $350-400K?
11-20-2009, 08:51 AM
#111
Originally Posted by sparrow,Nov 20 2009, 04:10 AM
Say what ya want the car is ugly... If u put a ferrari badge on it as TRD said, Italy would cry. Lexus proved one thing with this car's aesthetics. That they shoulda left it to the big boys. Loads of people complained about the gtr's aesthetics. Well this looks like an 8yr old japanese boys origami project. I like the engine and the interior is nice but lets be serious. If u cover a victoria secrets model in dog shyt she's gonna stink and quite frankly when you look at the car it stinks. For some people buying a car is a total work of art experience. If one aspect of it is to far off from what they like then the whole art piece is diminished. For me aesthetics is a very important part in car design. How did you first meet your wife/gf. You noticed her looks first probably. If you didn't then more power to you. But for the majority of people I would say they notice looks first. Same thing with this car. The personality appears to be great but it looks like ricki lake with air vents. I cannot stress enough that I like everything else about it except for the price. It doesn't even LOOK like its worth half the money.
for people who hasn't seen the car in person i would wait with the car looks ugly stuff and its not worth the price because i thought the LFA concpet was ugly until i saw the car in person at 2007 chicago auto show.
11-20-2009, 08:53 AM
#112
Originally Posted by TRDLiquidSilver,Nov 19 2009, 01:28 PM
...the design of the LFA breaks the design norm of form follows function because in the LFA case function comes first over form.
11-20-2009, 09:44 AM
#113
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Originally Posted by Steponme,Nov 17 2009, 04:09 PM
Every LFA thread requires this pic:
That, alone, is worth $1M.
At $400K, it's 60% off and all the other stuff are free.
That, alone, is worth $1M.
At $400K, it's 60% off and all the other stuff are free.
11-20-2009, 10:47 AM
#114
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Originally Posted by cbehney,Nov 20 2009, 09:53 AM
I'm confused. Doesn't "form follows function" mean that function comes first? So if "in the LFA case function comes first," then how can Toyota be breaking the norm?
Seriously, I think the LFA is kind of cool with a seriously lame moniker. I mean for god's sake they had ten frikkin' years to come up with something other than "Let's take the hyphen out of LF-A!" That is so cutting edge creative :/
And anybody who thinks for one second that the LFA was not designed to look "supercar-ish" is either blind or politely looking the other way. I don't think the car is ugly, and I do think it looks vaguely supercar-ish in a Lexus/Toyota way. But I'm not buying the whole "form follows function" bit at all. A Gumpert Apollo is an example of function over form. Can anyone look at the Gumpert and look at the LFA and tell me with a straight face the LFA wasn't styled by a designer with aspirations of high art?
11-20-2009, 11:37 AM
#115
Originally Posted by NuncoStr8,Nov 20 2009, 03:47 PM
Can anyone look at the Gumpert and look at the LFA and tell me with a straight face the LFA wasn't styled by a designer with aspirations of origami?
11-20-2009, 11:44 AM
#116
how can we see examples of trickle down engineering when the car is not even for sale yet? how long until we saw a hybrid camry, highlander, RX, LS and HS? 1st gen prius came out in 2000 and 2nd gen prius came in 2004.
all the knoweledge learned from LFA will eventually trickle down because of this guy.
bingo! and they did it with the ISF. they didn't compromise, they built a car that was made to be on track and not so much on normal roads.
what's your defintion of halo car? $200K, $300k, $400k? because chevy, nissan and dodge has halo cars and they're nowhere near $200k. and toyota did have a halo car back in the day which all of us know. people need to understand the LFA is a HALO car for LEXUS not toyota. where does it say in their press kit the car is for toyota?
how old are you? do you have career? do you still live at home? do you pay a mortgage? only imature Fast & Furious fanboys would post what you just posted.
"spend the extra engineering time in making the steering more invigorating or getting the engine produce 0-60s in the 3 second range?"
class is in session. watch the vid to see what they've been doing for the past 9 years. they didn't set out to make a lexus version of a ferrari supercar, they set out to build a supercar for lexus.
yes, the LFA is for their brand within a brand (F marquee) which they plan on expanding. the V10 9k of the LFA i'm sure will not make it into a corolla or camry but certain things learned from the LFA that we don't think as big things, chassis and suspension development, aerodynamics and what i see will be very important because of changes in CAFE standards in this upcoming decade will only help toyota even more and be ahead in terms alternative choices for lightweight materials that's still strong and safe, Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic (CFRP).
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDsXsdNgov0 [/media]
all the knoweledge learned from LFA will eventually trickle down because of this guy.
Speaking at the 2009 Center for Automotive Research Conference, Mr Toyoda - an avid performance car enthusiast - said he personally wanted to see more driving fun injected into Toyota’s model line-up.
“My hope is that I can transfer some enthusiasm from the race track to our vehicles and make driving fun for our customers around the world,” Mr Toyoda said."
“My hope is that I can transfer some enthusiasm from the race track to our vehicles and make driving fun for our customers around the world,” Mr Toyoda said."
Perhaps the reason why Toyota engineers were focused on hybrid tech or whatever is because that was what they were paid to do, so if Toyota said hey guys, let's build a GSF, go balls to wall, I'm sure they could figure it out.
I don't mean to put words into your mouth, but you're asserting that progress can't happen without the development of a halo car, yet they did just fine during the 90s where great cars like the 3sgte powered cars and supra came to be, all with no halo cars. The supra shared its platform witht he sc300, the celica all trac was an awd turbo four banger, the mr2 was a mid engined 4 banger (claimed to have been developed by lotus), the celica gts later on was developed by yamaha, the ft86 is being powered subaru powerplants, there's no continuity in any of these cars; my point is that toyota can and has made great cars without having to make halo cars.
The LFA marks a watershed point for Lexus – its global debut marks the spectacular arrival of a new flagship for the F portfolio of Lexus performance models. A Lexus that single-handedly creates new boundaries to redefine the supercar for the 21st Century.
“From the very beginning of automobile history, supercars have represented dreams, hopes and aspirations,” explained Haruhiko Tanahashi, chief engineer of the LFA’s development program. “For Lexus, a brand that aims to provide customers enlightened moments and memorable experiences, the development of a world-class supercar was an indispensable next step”.
“From the very beginning of automobile history, supercars have represented dreams, hopes and aspirations,” explained Haruhiko Tanahashi, chief engineer of the LFA’s development program. “For Lexus, a brand that aims to provide customers enlightened moments and memorable experiences, the development of a world-class supercar was an indispensable next step”.
And yes, I do understand that F1 sounds don't come overnight, but that's hardly trickle down engineering, I would expect the car to sound great for that price. But just because the car sounds like it, doesn't mean it's gonna be like it. Yes, give me a V10 with ITD and an open exhaust, I'd loooove that sound, spend the extra engineering time in making the steering more invigorating or getting the engine produce 0-60s in the 3 second range? Just don't put on a stupid, mute everything, typical lexus muffler.
"spend the extra engineering time in making the steering more invigorating or getting the engine produce 0-60s in the 3 second range?"
class is in session. watch the vid to see what they've been doing for the past 9 years. they didn't set out to make a lexus version of a ferrari supercar, they set out to build a supercar for lexus.
“The LFA is a thoroughbred supercar, a machine engineered to achieve one single goal – to deliver a supreme driving experience,” explained Tanahashi. “Over the past decade we have pushed every boundary in the pursuit of this goal. I believe that we have created the most driver-oriented car we possibly could.”
The corolla/camry/IS250/prius/trucks and suvs/GS/LS have nothing to learn from the LFA and won't be changed/upgraded because of it. The F cars sure, but those cars would've gotten new tech without lexus having to make the LFA because the engineers would be paid to produce cars. I mean hell, where did TRD go?
Toyota managed to produce the same/lesser results of its competitors and is going to charge a lot more for it, engineering success?
Toyota managed to produce the same/lesser results of its competitors and is going to charge a lot more for it, engineering success?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDsXsdNgov0 [/media]
11-20-2009, 12:14 PM
#117
Originally Posted by cbehney,Nov 20 2009, 09:53 AM
I'm confused. Doesn't "form follows function" mean that function comes first? So if "in the LFA case function comes first," then how can Toyota be breaking the norm?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_follows_function
with the LFA they designed the car with function in mind 1st and form 2nd which is not what production road car designers are taught to do. now if it were a race car e.g. F1 its always about function first. if you watched F1 in the 90's there was some funky looking cars on the grid and as recent as 2007 the bunny ears on the nose. aesthically it makes the car look horrible but if its functional for more speed, F1 teams added it.
winning car in 2006 the R26. ugly as sin from a top view.
the lfa was built and designed around this thinking, do people agree with it? it seems mixed like any car because like i've said before styling is subjective and i always leave the styling remarks until i see it in person.
For example, the sharp trailing edges at the rear of the LFA that ensure the wind breaks cleanly away from the body would not have been possible had traditional metal been used for the bodywork.
The LFA’s clean styling is also free of token fripperies, reflecting both the L-finesse approach to uncluttered design and the mechanical purity that lies beneath its composite skin.
Its numerous air-intakes and aerodynamic features, for example, fulfil a functional role first and an aesthetic role second
The LFA’s clean styling is also free of token fripperies, reflecting both the L-finesse approach to uncluttered design and the mechanical purity that lies beneath its composite skin.
Its numerous air-intakes and aerodynamic features, for example, fulfil a functional role first and an aesthetic role second
11-20-2009, 12:55 PM
#118
Originally Posted by TheDonEffect,Nov 20 2009, 09:36 AM
Virtually all the great/popular sportscars are evolved through generations of development, not trickle down engineering. The halo cars of these companies tend to be a culmination of all the ideas that the wanted to use but was too impractical in their general lineup. I would say/speculate that the Z had more to do with the GTR than vice versa, the 911/boxster with the carrera GT, 360 modena to the Enzo, etc etc.
Eventually, these technologies will become more practical/cost effective to use, the DSG gear box, boranized metal, carbon fiber, alumnum, etc are great examples of this.
Lexus has nothing to really branch out from, so they need to play catch up with all the other manufacturers, problem is that it results to a lot of R&D in a shorter amount of time which equals cost. It's like if Mitsubishi wanted to create something to compete against the prius which is already 3 generations in, they're gonna lose a buttload of money upfront whereas toyota is making good money at this point.
You dont need your own f1 car to draw inspiration to make an f1 noise. What little aerodynamic tweek on an formula car isn't going to find its way to an LS or corolla.
Eventually, these technologies will become more practical/cost effective to use, the DSG gear box, boranized metal, carbon fiber, alumnum, etc are great examples of this.
Lexus has nothing to really branch out from, so they need to play catch up with all the other manufacturers, problem is that it results to a lot of R&D in a shorter amount of time which equals cost. It's like if Mitsubishi wanted to create something to compete against the prius which is already 3 generations in, they're gonna lose a buttload of money upfront whereas toyota is making good money at this point.
You dont need your own f1 car to draw inspiration to make an f1 noise. What little aerodynamic tweek on an formula car isn't going to find its way to an LS or corolla.
one could argue that the original skyline gt-r influenced the original z.
and there are some things we can learn from F1 car that can be translated into a road car, maybe not a whole lot but there are some. most recently diffusers and an old one rear wings.
and yes the reason it cost them so much to make this car they did everything in house. the same was said for the 1st gen prius, it cost toyota $60k to make and they sold it for $20k back in 2000. fast foward 9yrs and i know they've profited on hybrid technology since then.
the only thing that tanahashi said was he was inspired by the sounds of a F1 car. so they set out to replicate the sound and like i've said the 1LR-GUE has nothing in common with toyota 2002-2007 F1 V10 motor.
11-20-2009, 01:37 PM
#119
Originally Posted by PsychoBen,Nov 20 2009, 07:52 AM
Yes, that and couple other things:
1. Exterior styling in the 911 and R8 are far better than LFA. LFA exterior styling seems to be inspired by matchbox. You can say look is subjective, but you only see that phase gets used with the lesser good looking things. And if you think LFA sacrifices look for function, its drag coefficient is 0.31. It's OK but hardly impressive for a supercar.
I do appreciate LFA's interior material quality and its LCD gauges though.
2. I like the fact that the aforementioned have RR and MR platform vs. LFA's FR. In the R&T article LFA chief designer, Haruhiko Tanahashi, spinned on why FR instead of RR or MR. If you read between the lines and peel back the onion layers, he essentially said FR would allow the car to better take over driver input when near/at the limit. To me, it sounds like they can't build a proper MR supercar and give hints that LFA may be another nannied machine from the Lexus line. That's what I take away from his quote.
You made too much assumptions on your second part. In the same R&T article, Tanahashi specifically mentioned, "When we started from a clean sheet of paper, our company purchased competitor cars such as Porsche and Ferrari, and we checked and researched these cars. And from those experiences we came up with ideas on what our car should be." Sounds like benchmarking to me...
1. Exterior styling in the 911 and R8 are far better than LFA. LFA exterior styling seems to be inspired by matchbox. You can say look is subjective, but you only see that phase gets used with the lesser good looking things. And if you think LFA sacrifices look for function, its drag coefficient is 0.31. It's OK but hardly impressive for a supercar.
I do appreciate LFA's interior material quality and its LCD gauges though.
2. I like the fact that the aforementioned have RR and MR platform vs. LFA's FR. In the R&T article LFA chief designer, Haruhiko Tanahashi, spinned on why FR instead of RR or MR. If you read between the lines and peel back the onion layers, he essentially said FR would allow the car to better take over driver input when near/at the limit. To me, it sounds like they can't build a proper MR supercar and give hints that LFA may be another nannied machine from the Lexus line. That's what I take away from his quote.
You made too much assumptions on your second part. In the same R&T article, Tanahashi specifically mentioned, "When we started from a clean sheet of paper, our company purchased competitor cars such as Porsche and Ferrari, and we checked and researched these cars. And from those experiences we came up with ideas on what our car should be." Sounds like benchmarking to me...
but your #2... they've built 3 models of MR layouts so they know how, and they spent enough time and money developing the car so that wasn't an issue. if they felt the FR vs. MR was better there's a reason and its not because its "another nannied machine from lexus" because when did FR or MR layouts become technical? FR and MR layouts is all based on mechanics. when mags say that " the lexus nannies are taking over to soon when we get frisky" that's the technical side. i know one of the reasons they chose the FR was for increased high speed stability.
11-20-2009, 01:58 PM
#120
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Originally Posted by TRDLiquidSilver,Nov 19 2009, 07:31 PM
you have what's called porscheitis.
how can a car that you haven't drove, seen or heard in person and hasn't been compared back to back with other supercars or a 911 turbo (which won't happen) be "more fun to drive", "almost as fast", "and more comfortable" be better if the said car has not been fully tested? all we have seen are preview test from the manufacturer.
i'm glad you know how to manage your money but like many have said the 500 homes the LFA will find won't have owners looking to buy used F430 as a weekend car and a new s-class as "daily driver".
how can a car that you haven't drove, seen or heard in person and hasn't been compared back to back with other supercars or a 911 turbo (which won't happen) be "more fun to drive", "almost as fast", "and more comfortable" be better if the said car has not been fully tested? all we have seen are preview test from the manufacturer.
i'm glad you know how to manage your money but like many have said the 500 homes the LFA will find won't have owners looking to buy used F430 as a weekend car and a new s-class as "daily driver".
Have you driven the LFA? I'm merely rag racing. Just as you and everyone else in this thread are doing. And there's a reason I used the word if. Perhaps you missed it, or perhaps you don't understand how if, then statements work?