View Poll Results: How will it compare to the now 6 year old C6Z06
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The New NSX Poll
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From: Foster City, CA
F458 is consistently over 3400 lbs with some weights (real world) over 3600 lbs (!!). It is also $250K plus, which is probably well ahead of where the NSX will be priced UNLESS they truly go for broke with a bespoke CF chassis, ultra-exotic contruction, etc, etc... The Audi R8 will probably be its closest competitor, all things considered, based on looks, size, general drivetrain layout and price.
I believe the issue is, you're focusing on two areas only for the Z06. That is not all that matters for a supercar. The Z06 is not a supercar, despite having near-supercar performance. It has a crappy-looking interior, a flimsy set of body panels, it rides roughly unless you get the magic suspension and it also shares its platform with a very strongly selling vehicle lineup (ie, it has volume to keep price down).
A supercar must have more than performance. It must have great looks, a great (or, at least, very unique) interior, lots of technology and (to some degree) rarity. Those are things that the Z06 arguably lacks in comparison to, say, an Audi R8, Ferrar F458 or McLaren MP4-12C, despite the fact that it performs fairly close to many of them and is lighter than all but the McLaren.
Let me put it a different way. The Z06 does not have:
1. Dual clutch technology (a Ford Focus has it, not to mention a Boxster)
2. Electronic differential technology (an MDX has it)
3. Beautiful interior (a Hyundai Genesis has it)
4. Extensive use of exotic materials
5. AWD (valid point, since we're comparing weight)
6. Particularly effective aerodynamics, active or passive (a Honda Civic HF has it)
8. A particularly high-tech engine (no one disputes its effectiveness but it's still quite old school compared to a F458 motor or the turbo McLaren motor)
And that's just a start of the list that one could arguably declare should be included in the Z06, since those cars are priced well below it. The Z06's effectiveness is unquestionable. However, the shopping list is pretty bland compared to the standard equipment you get on a supercar of roughly comparable performance. It is a midlevel (priced) sports car with an extensive amount of upgrades and, in the end, it shows. It's great for guys like me that can't buy a $150K sports car. It's not even on the radar for those that can...
I believe the issue is, you're focusing on two areas only for the Z06. That is not all that matters for a supercar. The Z06 is not a supercar, despite having near-supercar performance. It has a crappy-looking interior, a flimsy set of body panels, it rides roughly unless you get the magic suspension and it also shares its platform with a very strongly selling vehicle lineup (ie, it has volume to keep price down).
A supercar must have more than performance. It must have great looks, a great (or, at least, very unique) interior, lots of technology and (to some degree) rarity. Those are things that the Z06 arguably lacks in comparison to, say, an Audi R8, Ferrar F458 or McLaren MP4-12C, despite the fact that it performs fairly close to many of them and is lighter than all but the McLaren.
Let me put it a different way. The Z06 does not have:
1. Dual clutch technology (a Ford Focus has it, not to mention a Boxster)
2. Electronic differential technology (an MDX has it)
3. Beautiful interior (a Hyundai Genesis has it)
4. Extensive use of exotic materials
5. AWD (valid point, since we're comparing weight)
6. Particularly effective aerodynamics, active or passive (a Honda Civic HF has it)
8. A particularly high-tech engine (no one disputes its effectiveness but it's still quite old school compared to a F458 motor or the turbo McLaren motor)
And that's just a start of the list that one could arguably declare should be included in the Z06, since those cars are priced well below it. The Z06's effectiveness is unquestionable. However, the shopping list is pretty bland compared to the standard equipment you get on a supercar of roughly comparable performance. It is a midlevel (priced) sports car with an extensive amount of upgrades and, in the end, it shows. It's great for guys like me that can't buy a $150K sports car. It's not even on the radar for those that can...
I already took care of all that tehnology stuff by saying it will cost at least 2X. Implicit in that is that it will have wizbang gizmos and interior made of rare monkey scrotum. I get it.It's a simple question doctor, if the moon was made of bbq spare ribs would you eat it?
I will be disappointed if it can't match power/weight of the Z06. I understand they are different cars for different buyers, but I expect it to be faster. I'm not paying $150k or more for a honda if it can't beat a Z06 in performance regardles off the rare scrotum interior.
Joined: May 2002
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You are nothing if not verbose. I already took care of all that tehnology stuff by saying it will cost at least 2X. Implicit in that is that it will have wizbang gizmos and interior made of rare monkey scrotum. I get it.
It's a simple question doctor, if the moon was made of bbq spare ribs would you eat it? I will be disappointed if it can't match power/weight of the Z06. I understand they are different cars for different buyers, but I expect it to be faster. I'm not paying $150k or more for a honda if it can't beat a Z06 in performance regardles off the rare scrotum interior.
I already took care of all that tehnology stuff by saying it will cost at least 2X. Implicit in that is that it will have wizbang gizmos and interior made of rare monkey scrotum. I get it.It's a simple question doctor, if the moon was made of bbq spare ribs would you eat it?
I will be disappointed if it can't match power/weight of the Z06. I understand they are different cars for different buyers, but I expect it to be faster. I'm not paying $150k or more for a honda if it can't beat a Z06 in performance regardles off the rare scrotum interior.Audi R8 is slower than Z06 and weighs more
Porsche 997 C4S is slower than Z06 and weighs more
Mercedes SLS AMG is slower than Z06 and weighs more
Aston Martin DBS is slower than Z06 and weighs more
Aston Martin V12 Vantage is slower than Z06 and weighs more
1st generation Lamborghini Gallardo is slower than Z06 and weighs more
Lexus LF-A is slower than Z06 and weighs more
Does that drive home the point that weight/power/acceleration/performance of some cars that cost 4X (!!!) the price of a Z06 still are inferior to said Z06? And does anyone care? Not the buyers, that's for sure.
Be disappointed all you want. Acceleration is only a mere portion of the reasons to buy these cars and, quite frankly, most owners wouldn't be able to get the full potential out of a Z06 (or any of the other above cars) either way if they didn't have launch control.
How many owners of Lamborghini Aventadors do you think will do a 10.9s blast through the 1/4 mile (ever)? How many V12 Vantage owners will take their car to 198 mph? How many Gallardo owners will push their AWD system to the absolute limits of adhesion?
You own a Viper ACR. That speaks volumes about what you value, namely, outright speed, handling and grip and what you would give up to get it (ride comfort, driveability, noise comfort, sight lines, etc, etc). It makes sense that you would care about ultimate speed above all else. It just doesn't makes nearly as much sense for MOST people buying cars in the $150K+ bracket...
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Audi R8 is slower than Z06 and weighs more
Porsche 997 C4S is slower than Z06 and weighs more
Mercedes SLS AMG is slower than Z06 and weighs more
Aston Martin DBS is slower than Z06 and weighs more
Aston Martin V12 Vantage is slower than Z06 and weighs more
1st generation Lamborghini Gallardo is slower than Z06 and weighs more
Lexus LF-A is slower than Z06 and weighs more
Porsche 997 C4S is slower than Z06 and weighs more
Mercedes SLS AMG is slower than Z06 and weighs more
Aston Martin DBS is slower than Z06 and weighs more
Aston Martin V12 Vantage is slower than Z06 and weighs more
1st generation Lamborghini Gallardo is slower than Z06 and weighs more
Lexus LF-A is slower than Z06 and weighs more
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From: Montana
^I think he is trying to prove a point by using the Z06, which bases at just over $70k.
I'm by no means a Chevy or Corvette "fanboi" but some of the remarks/claims made against the Corvette are just flat out untrue.
-The Corvette does not share it's platform with any other vehicles
-It does in fact have a sophisticated chassis and body consisting of fiberglass (which everyone knows), wood composites and carbon fiber (yeah, that fancy stuff)
-the transverse leaf springs and compact engine allow for a very sleek design, which is a welcome sight compared to a lot of the chunky vehicles being designed these days.
Yes it's interior sucks, but the exterior styling is pretty good and the only knock against it that you can really come up with is it's too common a sight. I am not necessarily saying that I would choose the Z06 (or even the ZR1) against all the vehicles listed in this thread but to dismiss it as crude, inferior and basic is flat out wrong and inaccurate.
I'm by no means a Chevy or Corvette "fanboi" but some of the remarks/claims made against the Corvette are just flat out untrue.
-The Corvette does not share it's platform with any other vehicles
-It does in fact have a sophisticated chassis and body consisting of fiberglass (which everyone knows), wood composites and carbon fiber (yeah, that fancy stuff)
-the transverse leaf springs and compact engine allow for a very sleek design, which is a welcome sight compared to a lot of the chunky vehicles being designed these days.
Yes it's interior sucks, but the exterior styling is pretty good and the only knock against it that you can really come up with is it's too common a sight. I am not necessarily saying that I would choose the Z06 (or even the ZR1) against all the vehicles listed in this thread but to dismiss it as crude, inferior and basic is flat out wrong and inaccurate.
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From: Milky way galaxy
The people that are saying they aren't comparable, fine. What if I had just put will it weigh less then 3130 lbs and have over 500 HP? 
I don't think it's too much to ask for a super-hyper-halo car (10 years in the making or more by the time it's released) that is will probably cost $150k or more to outperform a 9 year old stock corvette. By the time it's 2015 the C6Z06 will be 9 years old. I will be very disappointed in the NSX if it's power to weight isn't better then the 9 year old plastic fantastic. If you don't think it should outperform the c6z06, you are to quote Chris Rock "a low expectations having motherf@#ker!"
Fine compare it to the 458. Wasn't that the NSX's original mission to be the equivalent of the present V8 ferrari at less cost and more reliability?
3300lbs and 560HP. Or can you not compare that because the ferrari doesn't have electric motors? Can you compare the new NSX to anything?
I don't think it's too much to ask for a super-hyper-halo car (10 years in the making or more by the time it's released) that is will probably cost $150k or more to outperform a 9 year old stock corvette. By the time it's 2015 the C6Z06 will be 9 years old. I will be very disappointed in the NSX if it's power to weight isn't better then the 9 year old plastic fantastic. If you don't think it should outperform the c6z06, you are to quote Chris Rock "a low expectations having motherf@#ker!"
Fine compare it to the 458. Wasn't that the NSX's original mission to be the equivalent of the present V8 ferrari at less cost and more reliability?
3300lbs and 560HP. Or can you not compare that because the ferrari doesn't have electric motors? Can you compare the new NSX to anything?
This is a halo car to show off technology and direction of the company which is to be more eco-friendly. I don't think it's an accurate argument to only say, "it won't have the HP to weight ratio of "xxx", while not mentioning in the same sentence this car isn't designed with that goal in mind. Honda is looking ahead and trying to change the game with the direction of the industry. Honda's goal is to look ahead at where things are going, not look back and meet certain performance goals. I would also bet that within 10 years, countless other manufacturers will catch up to the direction this car is headed, (hybrid, eco performance) and beat it, just like what happened with the original NSX.
Sure, it needs to run to 60 in about 4 seconds, but I think the point of this thread is misguided.
We all know it will be at least 3500 lbs with a v6 AWD, at least 18" wheels and 2 electric motors etc...
There is no doubt it will be slower than the older C6 Z06 vette, but at the same time this comparison, and any comparison basically to any other car on the market isn't apples to apples.
Honda could stuff a V10 with 500 + HP into this car and it would be fast, but changing the game may be a step backwards in performance initially.
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I said the Z06 shares its platform (it does, with the rest of the fairly high-volume Corvette lineup, which sells a LOT of cars for a sports car of that price), not that Corvette shares its platform with others. So, it has volume on its side (the Mustang is in a similar, albeit far more exaggerated, situation).
Compared to a Mercedes SLS AMG with a full CF tub, or a McLaren with a similar design, the Z06 chassis or material choices aren't nearly as fancy. It has some ingenuity in it, that's for sure, but definitely not exotic.
We all know the advantages of the leaf spring setup. It's still not remotely as slick as the suspensions you'll see on a McLaren MP4-12C or other cars. The Z06 is a rough-riding car with anything but the magnetorheological shocks whereas the other cars are able to give you a better compromise without losing performance.
My point was and is that yes, the Z06 is fairly crude compared to quite a few cars that are heavier or slower. The LF-A, Aston Martins, SLS AMG, etc, etc, all have some pretty neat technology (engine, suspension, materials, aero, etc, etc) that the Z06 doesn't employ (in part if not in totality). It's effective but yes, it is still quite basic - big motor, big tires, lightweight chassis. That's a strength for the price point (it's how they make a Corvette so good for so cheap, relatively speaking) but not when you're trying to be a supercar. You need a little bit more...
Compared to a Mercedes SLS AMG with a full CF tub, or a McLaren with a similar design, the Z06 chassis or material choices aren't nearly as fancy. It has some ingenuity in it, that's for sure, but definitely not exotic.
We all know the advantages of the leaf spring setup. It's still not remotely as slick as the suspensions you'll see on a McLaren MP4-12C or other cars. The Z06 is a rough-riding car with anything but the magnetorheological shocks whereas the other cars are able to give you a better compromise without losing performance.
My point was and is that yes, the Z06 is fairly crude compared to quite a few cars that are heavier or slower. The LF-A, Aston Martins, SLS AMG, etc, etc, all have some pretty neat technology (engine, suspension, materials, aero, etc, etc) that the Z06 doesn't employ (in part if not in totality). It's effective but yes, it is still quite basic - big motor, big tires, lightweight chassis. That's a strength for the price point (it's how they make a Corvette so good for so cheap, relatively speaking) but not when you're trying to be a supercar. You need a little bit more...
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^ I agree. The Z06 isn't the best vehicle to compare a Hybrid NSX to. The vette in many ways is a simpleton. It is a big ass motor stuffed in a relatively small ans light weight chassis with few creature comforts, and few electrical do-dads. Comparing the new NSX, with all the new tech and gadgets that its is going to have is silly. Then to try and make a performance comparison is even sillier.
To me it is dumb, just like comparing a Mustang to an M3. People say that for half the price you get the same performance. This is true, but if you were to compare the comfort, performance, interior quality, and social status the bang for your buck argument gets a little more complicated.
The one thing that I can guarantee about the NSX is that it will not be designed to do what a Z06 does.
To me it is dumb, just like comparing a Mustang to an M3. People say that for half the price you get the same performance. This is true, but if you were to compare the comfort, performance, interior quality, and social status the bang for your buck argument gets a little more complicated.
The one thing that I can guarantee about the NSX is that it will not be designed to do what a Z06 does.
Weeeeeeeeell, these cars are categorized as sportscars, implying some sort of competitive aspect, and when competing with sportscars, usually the metric is performance, or a beauty pageant. So engineering something for the sake of engineering doesn't really appeal to me. I mean what if Honda came out with a new toaster that toasts bread for triple the cost.
And a similar argument can be had with the M3 and stang, yeah they're two different cars (duh), but watch how sore BMW people get when a car half its price can compete with it, and using the argument of only in a straight line or in a teenage stoplight race is just ignorant. I if performance wasn't that important, why do they feel compelled to constantly improve performance? If it's about being classy, balance, and fun to drive, why not just stick to their E30 roots? If we were comparing a stang to a 330i or even a 335i, yeah, one is a sports coupe vs a luxury coupe, but the M3 is positioned as a luxurious sports coupe, but a sports coupe nonetheless.
But going back to the new NSX, if all this new technology Honda is going to cram in their solved a problem left by cars like the Z06 or 458 Italia, then great! But it doesn't. I mean will it offer all that power going around the track and achieve double the mpg? Will it be more reliable? Looking at the whole picture, will it be better for the environment? More efficient? Offer a better power curve? Cheaper to produce? Will it solve any engineering conundrum? Will it at least pose the question of imagine this but in time what it can accomplish like what Audi did with their TDI Le Mans racer? Anything? Or is it just different for the sake of look at we're able to accomplish. I mean yeah, gotta start somewhere in order for progress to happen, otherwise just make a friggin competitive exotic sportscar. I feel the NSX will be to exotics what the CRZ is to hot hatches.