rai

I think Toyota is so far ahead of the curve. Not all their current cars are top now, but it seems as if most of their new cars are top or near top of their class.

For instance the last gen Sienna was IMO far behind Odyssey, but the current gen leap-frogged into first place I owned both. Now the current gen Oddy may be better, but I view them as 1a and 1b.

Back to the Avalon. Haven't driven one, but C&D gave it 1st place in a 6-car comparo. It's beat out the 300 (touring), the Maxima as well as the Five Hundred and Lacross and Kia Amanti. It wasn't even close in the voting.

To consider the dif between Toyota and the Kia both with 3.5L engine. Kia 200hp Toyota 280hp. 1/4 mile times 16.4@86 mph (Kia) vs 14.6@99mph (Toyota) 0-60 8.2sec (kia) vs 6.0sec (toyota).

Observed MPG 18 mpg (Kia) vs 23 mpg (toyota) -- on same 600 mile trip
the EPA rating for the Kia is 17/25 vs 22/31 mpg city/hwy.

The Toyota is vastly more powerful yet gets signicantly better fuel mileage.

The Kia was 500 lbs heavier than the Toyota but just a few cubic feet bigger mostly in the trunk.

The kicker is, the Kia was priced within $1,300 of the Toyota. Kia Amanti as tested $29,410 vs Toyota as tested $30,699

OK I know with the Kia they probably stuff the trunk full of $100-bills. But anyone spending north of $26K for a Kia needs to have their head examined b/c Honda and Toyota have far better cars in that range. And any rebate up front will be paid double on the back end at resale.

QUIKAG

I agree! If I were looking for a comfy family sedan for under $30k, I would definitely look at the new Avalon.

rai

Not just that, but it seems like Scion is 2-3 years ahead of Honda/Nissan in the small cheap car game. Which Honda/Nissan seem to be poised to go after shortly.

Toyota Hybrids are out now, but it took forethought 5-6 years ago to get where they are.

I believe Honda and Nissan are also do a good job especially Nissan over the last 3 years. And Honda is well into the hybrid game.

I was reading Scion in their first full year of sales in the US are on pace to sell as many cars as Acura this year (acura cars only take away SUVs). That's not a bad number for a new division.

Sticky Dipstick

We Keep our Toyotas about 400.000 miles.
Not a whole lot happens in that time.
Honda & Toyota spoil ya.
My american Pick up truck has had about $1200 worth of repairs in 50K miles.

When Toyota introduces their 3/4 ton truck soon, look for market share to really shift.
The lease on my Toyota electric is up at the end of summer and I'm going to miss it.
I've charged it solar,, hasn't cost me a dime in energy costs in 4 years.. Toyota wants them back.

Slamnasty

The thing that surprised me about C&D's assessment of the new Avvy is thta the suspension was surprisingly harsh...not sports car harsh of course, but harsh considering the market it caters to.

Big power for less money is the exact formula Nissan has been using to make a comeback, and it has worked for them in spades too. It's amazing I could go out right now and for $15-20k, I could pick up a slightly used 2003 Maxima with 260hp and a 6-speed, and it doesn't even matter what trim level I look at.

The horsepower race continues to get more interesting. Honda may yet be forced to step up to a small displacement V8 to keep up.

rai

Amaizing the 3.5L engine is not in the Lexus GS which makes do with 3.0L and just 245hp is quite a bit slower than the Avalon yet costs $43K. Well they have to protect the 300hp GS430

Slamnasty

Right now if it were my cash and I was looking at a GS, an Avalon would look pretty tempting. The GS only has 20 more horses. It does also look better, but not 20+ grand better. The new GS interior is weak as well, IMO.

If I'm paying $55k for a luxury sedan, I'm all over the M45. Infiniti walked all over the IS300 with the G35/C, and I suspect they will do the same to the GS. The M45 all around just seems like a more advanced and desirable car to me.

Christople

I always thought there was a problem with selling the Avalon because of the Camry and for more money you can get a Lexus. The new avalon is a hell of deal and I'm sure whoever test drives one will think so too.

NFRs2000NYC

Its still a lexus. I know it sounds like "its a BMW" statement, but in this case, its true. The service, the reliability, the quality of lexus is second to none. And yes, it is worth the 20K.

supera

the GS350 is coming for 06. Lexus did this on purpose so the GS wouldn't have the same engine(3.5L V6) throughout it's entire 3rd Gen model span.

doesn't really make any sense though. lol