Someone, please explain to me how a heavier/less powerful car can get around the Ring quicker than a lighter, and more powerful car?

My first example is the BMW M3 vs Zonda F. The M3 clears the ring quicker than the Zonda F by 5 secs while weighing 400lbs more and 70hp less.
http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/354/C13915/

My 2nd example, is the GTR vs the Porsche. A weight disadvantage, a power disadvantage. Yet the GTR beats the car by 911 by 2 secs.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/25/video-n...rgring-in-7-38/

Where, and how are these cars defying physics? Maybe it's the hot-shoe behind the steering wheel. I'd like to see the same driver in all of these cars...maybe I just answered my own question

Anyways, I'd like to hear some mental masturbation on this subject, if you don't mind entertaining me.

 

That M3 CSL must stick like glue in corners. The other factor might be the actual dyno curve. Total area under the curve can be different that peak HP. Down 70 HP sounds bad but the gear-to-gear pull might be closer.

 

Tires, alignment, track condition, weather, and probably quite a few other factors too. It is the 'Ring, after all.

If you really are the Stig, you'd understand these things.

 

[QUOTE=PilotSi,Nov 29 2007, 11:11 AM]
My first example is the BMW M3 vs Zonda F.

 

The modified BMW beats the Zonda because it is made for the real world. The BMW will have the suspension setup (spring and damper rates) to deal with real world situations like the imperfect roads you find on the Nordschleife. Mid corner bumps, asphalt to concrete transitions, curbing, etc. If you took both cars to the glass smooth F1 Nurburgring track the Zonda would fair much better.

The difference between the Porsche and GT-R is small enough where it is statistically insignificant. 2 seconds, on different days, with different weather, different drivers, closed or open track, possible Nurburgring only modifications...

 

Keep in mind that the HP rating for the M3 is at the wheels, so it very well might has as much HP as the Zonda. Plus with the aero and whatever suspension tuning, it might be faster/easier to drive in the corners too.

Regarding the GTR, the dual-clutch tranmission can account for a lot of acceleration, and the computer controlled AWD system can account for a lot of cornering speed.

 

The GTR has a 75lb/ft deficiency and 300+ lb weight disadvantage as well...harder to stop, more weight to move around under load than the 911.

I just can't overcome these numbers...I'd suspect to get close to the 911 is quite a feat. To beat it, is a little bit of a miracle or a little mis-advertisement on how close that GTR is to an actual production model.

 

...theres a lot more that goes into a cars performance than weight and horsepower... If you don't understand that, than stick to this forum

www.domesticdrag.com

 

Haha. I know -- but it's also hard to defy physics. The biggest variable is the driver here...but given equal drivers, I can't see the GTR beating the Porsche. To say so, would be stating that Porsche's accolades in sports car racing has been purely luck? And that Nissan can tune a car better than Porsche?

Hell, Nissan dreams of the history that Porsche has had in racing.

 

LOL.... by the way, I wouldn't go to that site, I just made it up, and with my luck, its probably a $$$$$$ site...

As for the GT-R, its amazing how in the past, Nissan has been able to take a Sedan platform (what the skyline is) and turn it into a proven race winner... As for the current ring time that the GT-R posted, Carlos Goshn (or whatever his name is) at one of the autoshows said that the time was set using a "near production skyline" (probably meaning it was using R-compound tires) Tires have a huge play and factor in cornering speeds... and if R-compound tires were used on the GT-R, it would easily give it a few second advantage. I'm also guessing that the GT-R is putting a higher percentage of power down to the wheels (a 450 hp C5 Z06 looses about 100 hp from crank to wheels) ...If you read about all of the tweaking done to the GT-R I'm guessing that the loss is very minimal... the new GT2 or GT3 (I can't remember) has a lower output/liter crank horsepower than an AP1 s2k, but much higher wheel output/liter than the s2k... this is because of lots of drivetrain tweaking... (I am very interested in seeing a GT-R dyno...