Production Camaro revealed
07-21-2008, 10:18 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by Rev9K27,Jul 21 2008, 09:55 AM
What I would like to know is when are car companies going to start
concentrating on making cars lighter?
In the current fuel crises (if you want to call it that)
we are in, you would think that they would start working
on that. But cars are getting heavier and heavier and that
kills gas mileage and performance. The Camaro is going to
NEED 400HP. Its so dang heavy! I would much rather drive
a performance car that weigh under 3000 lbs and have around 300hp
than a 4000 pound car that has 400 or so horsepower. IMO.
Having said that ... the Camaro looks good!
At least GM has improved in the design department.
concentrating on making cars lighter?
In the current fuel crises (if you want to call it that)
we are in, you would think that they would start working
on that. But cars are getting heavier and heavier and that
kills gas mileage and performance. The Camaro is going to
NEED 400HP. Its so dang heavy! I would much rather drive
a performance car that weigh under 3000 lbs and have around 300hp
than a 4000 pound car that has 400 or so horsepower. IMO.
Having said that ... the Camaro looks good!
At least GM has improved in the design department.
07-21-2008, 10:22 AM
#52
IS ANYONE ELSE SICK OF THESE STUPID CARTOONISH LOOKING CARS? What a joke. The Mustang, the Challenger, now this, they look like stupid cartoons of what the cars used to look like
07-21-2008, 10:38 AM
#53
Originally Posted by vader1,Jul 21 2008, 08:04 AM
Good lord. You like big blocks, we get it but the guy is entitled to post his opinion. Tone it down a notch.
And lets get over the notion when you tell us it will handle like a lotus and get 35 mpg cause it turns 70 mph at 1000 rpm. Not gonna happen.
These things have their tradeoffs. Big blocks are great for montster hp and torque, but the heavy weighted cars have a downside. Its just a fact. If it weren't they would make indy cars that weigh 3700 pounds.
If someone likes a canyon carver over a quarter mile beast, so be it. Does not mean they need to, "Grow the...." well you know.
I just happen to think the car is butt ugly. But thats not to say I think an S2000 is beautiful. I think it looks ok and prefer Vette looks.
I lust after the lilliputian Elise. Beautiful car.
And lets get over the notion when you tell us it will handle like a lotus and get 35 mpg cause it turns 70 mph at 1000 rpm. Not gonna happen.
These things have their tradeoffs. Big blocks are great for montster hp and torque, but the heavy weighted cars have a downside. Its just a fact. If it weren't they would make indy cars that weigh 3700 pounds.
If someone likes a canyon carver over a quarter mile beast, so be it. Does not mean they need to, "Grow the...." well you know.
I just happen to think the car is butt ugly. But thats not to say I think an S2000 is beautiful. I think it looks ok and prefer Vette looks.
I lust after the lilliputian Elise. Beautiful car.
The camaro is a capable cornering car, but others were right that it has more to do with the wide rubber and gobs of instant torque. This new camaro if it's anything like the gto is going to be more of a finesse car, but not in a caterham kinda way.
07-21-2008, 02:46 PM
#56
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Where did I say 450hp for 25K?
Your numbers are sound, as I dug up old archives and found the starting price on a Z/28 to be $20,000, and the SS option was $3,500, plus all the other goodies(leather, adj seats) made the total price around $27,000. Doing 3% inflation (yay USA), over the course of 10 years is around $36,000 and change. We could whip out the CPI index and nail it down even more accurately, but sorry, I hated my finance 300 class, I dont want to do that. Bottom line its safe to say its about a grand a year for inflation.
I see what you are saying, but you get a 300hp V6 for the price of a stang, and it will probably be a tick slower, and handle a lot better. Why use a V8, when you can use a DOHC DI V6, that all the import fans would at least respect? And all for the same price which seems more intelligent than making a V8 with less horsepower than the LS1 and selling it for 25K just because "Its a V8."
Chevy nailed it. They gave us an affordable and fast V6, and a 450hp V8 probably for 35-40K. Then they will have a ZR1 LS9 type motor in an even more expensive Camaro to go against the Shelby. Sounds like sound business sense to me - hitting all demographics and price ranges.
07-21-2008, 10:43 PM
#58
Originally Posted by brockLT1,Jul 21 2008, 02:46 PM
"I dunno, I just wish they made a V8 version for the same price of the stang GT, adn then made the SS version to achieve the higher end." - said by you just below your other quote
Your numbers are sound, as I dug up old archives and found the starting price on a Z/28 to be $20,000, and the SS option was $3,500, plus all the other goodies(leather, adj seats) made the total price around $27,000. Doing 3% inflation (yay USA), over the course of 10 years is around $36,000 and change. We could whip out the CPI index and nail it down even more accurately, but sorry, I hated my finance 300 class, I dont want to do that. Bottom line its safe to say its about a grand a year for inflation.
I see what you are saying, but you get a 300hp V6 for the price of a stang, and it will probably be a tick slower, and handle a lot better. Why use a V8, when you can use a DOHC DI V6, that all the import fans would at least respect? And all for the same price which seems more intelligent than making a V8 with less horsepower than the LS1 and selling it for 25K just because "Its a V8."
Chevy nailed it. They gave us an affordable and fast V6, and a 450hp V8 probably for 35-40K. Then they will have a ZR1 LS9 type motor in an even more expensive Camaro to go against the Shelby. Sounds like sound business sense to me - hitting all demographics and price ranges.
Your numbers are sound, as I dug up old archives and found the starting price on a Z/28 to be $20,000, and the SS option was $3,500, plus all the other goodies(leather, adj seats) made the total price around $27,000. Doing 3% inflation (yay USA), over the course of 10 years is around $36,000 and change. We could whip out the CPI index and nail it down even more accurately, but sorry, I hated my finance 300 class, I dont want to do that. Bottom line its safe to say its about a grand a year for inflation.
I see what you are saying, but you get a 300hp V6 for the price of a stang, and it will probably be a tick slower, and handle a lot better. Why use a V8, when you can use a DOHC DI V6, that all the import fans would at least respect? And all for the same price which seems more intelligent than making a V8 with less horsepower than the LS1 and selling it for 25K just because "Its a V8."
Chevy nailed it. They gave us an affordable and fast V6, and a 450hp V8 probably for 35-40K. Then they will have a ZR1 LS9 type motor in an even more expensive Camaro to go against the Shelby. Sounds like sound business sense to me - hitting all demographics and price ranges.
Hmm, your number seem low but I believe you, I do recall some friends buying those cars dirt cheap back in the day, but it was more due to the fact that they were disconting them like crazy. By the time they were in LS1 form, the car has been out for 5 years, so only hp freaks really bought them, but of course this was at the heigh of the import craze.
10K for 100hp more, better handling, more safety and technology, comfort, and build quality, I think the price hike has more to do with its sum of the parts, but I see where you're coming from.
Btw, to clarify, I meant to say that I wish the camaro was a more direct competitor to the mustang like how it was in the past, offering similar (but more powerful) powerplant levels and price points, but seems like they jsut skipped the low end altogether and started competing against the GT with a high output V6, a battle I think the aftermarket will support the 4.6L v8 in a lighter car. Hopefully the camaro will have as much cache as a Shelby GT500 or the Dodge Challenger.. Plus, Ford has already been in the works for the mustang refresh. But of course, I'd take 450hp for 25K anyday, but as you said, it is a pipedream.
And yes, let's not whip out the CPI index, my body will automatically fall asleep as a natural reflex from college.
07-22-2008, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDonEffect,Jul 21 2008, 10:43 PM
One thing I like about the Stang and the Fbodies of the past was their potential of being built into beasts, and you don't have to pay for the high horsepower tax upfront, build as you see fit. If I wanted a high output V6, I'd take a Z or G, in a 3500lb+ (3800 for the camaro) it just needs a V8. Comparing a 300hp V6 vs. a 300hp V8, I'd take the 8.
Hmm, your number seem low but I believe you, I do recall some friends buying those cars dirt cheap back in the day, but it was more due to the fact that they were disconting them like crazy. By the time they were in LS1 form, the car has been out for 5 years, so only hp freaks really bought them, but of course this was at the heigh of the import craze.
10K for 100hp more, better handling, more safety and technology, comfort, and build quality, I think the price hike has more to do with its sum of the parts, but I see where you're coming from.
Btw, to clarify, I meant to say that I wish the camaro was a more direct competitor to the mustang like how it was in the past, offering similar (but more powerful) powerplant levels and price points, but seems like they jsut skipped the low end altogether and started competing against the GT with a high output V6, a battle I think the aftermarket will support the 4.6L v8 in a lighter car. Hopefully the camaro will have as much cache as a Shelby GT500 or the Dodge Challenger.. Plus, Ford has already been in the works for the mustang refresh. But of course, I'd take 450hp for 25K anyday, but as you said, it is a pipedream.
And yes, let's not whip out the CPI index, my body will automatically fall asleep as a natural reflex from college.
Hmm, your number seem low but I believe you, I do recall some friends buying those cars dirt cheap back in the day, but it was more due to the fact that they were disconting them like crazy. By the time they were in LS1 form, the car has been out for 5 years, so only hp freaks really bought them, but of course this was at the heigh of the import craze.
10K for 100hp more, better handling, more safety and technology, comfort, and build quality, I think the price hike has more to do with its sum of the parts, but I see where you're coming from.
Btw, to clarify, I meant to say that I wish the camaro was a more direct competitor to the mustang like how it was in the past, offering similar (but more powerful) powerplant levels and price points, but seems like they jsut skipped the low end altogether and started competing against the GT with a high output V6, a battle I think the aftermarket will support the 4.6L v8 in a lighter car. Hopefully the camaro will have as much cache as a Shelby GT500 or the Dodge Challenger.. Plus, Ford has already been in the works for the mustang refresh. But of course, I'd take 450hp for 25K anyday, but as you said, it is a pipedream.
And yes, let's not whip out the CPI index, my body will automatically fall asleep as a natural reflex from college.
great post
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