Yep, your tire choice was not the best. The 205 front and rear is plenty of tire for an S2000 on something like a Blizzak. 195's are better. You want to skinny down with almost any car. However, 205 Blizzaks will make you want to cry on dry pavement after running on stock size RE050's or Star Specs.

I used to drive my GTO in winter with Blizzaks in central PA. I had a blast pulling away from Explorers at stoplights. Yes they had AWD but no, they didn't have new all season tires. People in PA would routinely drive in snowstorms with OEM all season tires that were worn to the point that I wouldn't drive on them in a heavy rain.

 

John, I think that to some extent we are just going to have to disagree. To me it seems that every example of you have of how an AWD car is better, revolves around accelerating. As for your stability control argument, most stability control systems use the brakes, not the AWD for OFF-throttle handling.

Also, our definitions of handling is probably different. IMO one of the biggest factors in "good" handling is to be able to have confidence that when you turn the wheel, or hit the brakes, or try to get the car to rotate, that it will do what you are asking it to, and that the results will be predictable. When I drove the Forester in the snow, it worked well, and aside from one hill, it got me where I asked it to. But when coming to a corner at cruising speed I was never overly confident that the car would actually turn. It had a great tendency to understeer at speeds that the Miata on snow tires simply would have turned. Part of that could be that the Miata weighs a ton less, part of it could be that AWD cars have a tendency to push.

Also, the level of A/S tires should also come into the discussion as long as we are having an actual debate about this. For instance, the Nokian WRG2. It is technically an A/S tire meant for year round use, and comes with a mileage warranty. That said, a sporty AWD car wearing the WRG2's will destroy any RWD car on full snows in almost every way. (The G2's are better in the snow than most snow tires are, Nokian is BA that way.)

And Ideally if you live in an area that gets lots of snow, you'll have something with AWD AND snows, but as long as ground clearance isn't an issue, I've always felt confident going anywhere anyone else has been able to get to, and so far I haven't been wrong.

Yes. As with anything, there is a huge amount of user error. Just look at how many people can't even drive in the rain.

Don't forget tread design. Vehicle type, and weight distribution also matter. For instance a small 2wd pickup with no weight added to the back will struggle no matter the tire. It just has too much weight to move with hardly any over the drive wheels.

Honestly it should make a difference if it is on level ground. If it is on level ground and the AWD car can make it at a certain speed, I would be very confident about the RWD car making it. If it is up hill, the RWD car will have to deal with oversteer due to having to be on throttle a bit more than on flat ground. Down hill, both cars will likely suffer from understeer, and keeping the vehicle going slow enough to make the corner could be an issue in both. Assuming that it is icy enough to give the RWD car issues to the point where it could make it due to an uncontrollable rear end, then there is no way that the AWD car on A/S tires is going to have enough steering grip to make it either.

As I said before, Each has it's own advantages, and disadvantages. The shortcomings of RWD can for the most part be overcome by a driver who has basic car control abilities. The inability to change direction, and stop are much harder to overcome. That said, as long as you are not going down hill in the AWD car, you can make up for the shortcomings by just driving even slower, just be willing to let me pass so that we don't both have to putter along at 10mph to get around a corner that is marked 45mph.

I will say that if I were to have my GF or mother driving in the snow, I'd prefer it to be in an AWD car WITH snow tires, as I know that neither have the car control skills to drive something RWD in the snow. They'd just end up hitting the throttle too hard at some point and not know how easy it should be to correct it.

 

I have no problem agreeing to disagree. I drive in this stuff for six months every year so my experience is just that - my experience. In possibly lesser conditions, I could see your scenarios being possible. Here, the conditions are such that I don't have the grip to match any AWD vehicles unless they're running on bald tires.

 

^ Also I guess that we could also have different types of snow. The only types of snow that I have any real amount of driving in would be North Western WA, and mountains in CA. The type of snow that you get could possibly be thicker or heavier? Or possibly more powdery?

 

When I lived on the east coast, it was wet and heavy - lots of slush and very tough to drive a vehicle through (tons of resistance). Here in western Canada, it's very dry and powdery (easy to shovel!) and much easier to drive through or over. However, the colder weather in western Canada means that you get lots of ice buildup at intersections where cars stop and temporarily melt snow and then it refreezes very quickly. There's just more ice on the road, period.

 

Tires! Tires! Tires!

I would love for the mentality that 'cheaper is better in everything' to disappear, because when it comes to tires, buying the proper set to handle such conditions makes all the difference in the world.

 

No amount of stability and traction control can increase lateral grip available.

In my experience and IMO, rwd on snow tires > awd on all-seasons for handling in the white stuff.

And anybody that's going to drive in the snow had *better* be comfortable with getting a little sideways. The uninitiated, when they *do* start to get out of shape, will 9/10 times do the wrong thing...

 

No, it can't increase it. However, it can find and use it quicker (and better) than most of us can, which was more my point.

 

I live in Iowa and I can't justify the price of an extra set of wheels/snow tires for my DD EP3. The last two years we have received a ton of snow, and I only remember 1 day where I missed work. One thing to consider is that areas that receive a lot of snow, are generally prepared for it. Meaning that plows are out round the clock. If I leave for work at 6:00 a.m there have already been enough plows out and traffic on the road to make my drive decent as long as you use some caution. I do realize that dedicated snow tires would be great, but the cost seems prohibitive to me. I do check my tires thoroughly before winter comes,I'm not going to risk driving around in questionable all season tires. My previous care was a supercharged Thunderbird, and while I still drove it when I had too, I was much quicker to pick up the phone to call my boss and take a vacation day than to battle the snow.

What annoys me is that many people don't seem to allow themselves any extra time to get where they are going, or just don't care. They insist on following less than one second behind you, not giving others any room to merge, etc. The other day the right-hand lane was completly clear and dry, while the left-hand lane was still about 80%+ snow covered. I am driving at what I think is reasonable speed, erring on the side of caution somewhere just below the speed limit, and yet for some reason many people still want that extra 7 or 8 mph, so they pull out into the left-hand lane and pass everyone sending snow flying everywhere decreasing your vision. Whatever.

In a somewhat related and light-hearted story, a friend at work had their spouse pull into their gravel drive in the deep snow. I assume to maintain some level of momentum and not bog down in the deep snow they were going a little too quick and didn't slow down enough when pulling into the garage. Car enters garage too fast, brakes applied, car doesn't stop fast enough. The car rams the wall on the opposite side of the garage knocking it off the foundation..

 

BS! I will challenge you to that. My AWD SUV on all-season tires vs. your Miata or S2000. When we just had a foot of snow, most cars were DOA, even on snow tires and chains, but my AWD SUV climbed hills like it was nothing.