If it were me, I would not consider the Ford, er... Jaguar. Granted the company has made quantum leaps in quality control in the last few years but its still not anywhere near the league of Infiniti or Lexus. Moreover, most Jag's depreciate like mofo's and you're talking about the first year of a brand new car. The new XJ looks like it will be a markedly improved car over the old but I take that with a grain of salt since the old XJ was long, long, long overdue for a significant re-do.

This may be a really odd car to mention and you would have to buy it used but...... I recently spent part of two days driving a Rolls Royce. I couldn't believe how nice it was to drive. Not a car I'd want to play in the twisties driving but for pure luxury it is great. You could pick up a very nice car from the mid to late 90's with 8,000 to 12,000 miles in that price range. Reliablity and price of repairs could be an issue but damn the cars are nice drivers. On the other hand the LS430 and the Q45 are great cars. For resale I would think the Lexus would be the better choice but I like the Q45 better. Actually if it was me I'd go with the FX45 even though it's an SUV and I don't normally go for SUV's.

$60-70K for a toyota???? Hell No!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NewR
[B]$60-70K for a toyota????

How about a

Mercedes E55 AMG. I think they are around 69K. That is a 1k less than 70K. hehehe :)

Or I can live with an M5. :) . But no way I would pay 70K for a Toyota.:thumbdn:

I think you get more luxury for the price of the LS 430. My parents have a LS 400 and a S class and I prefer the LS 400 over the S. The Mercedes does have a bigger name, but just compare the creature comforts and the LS should contain more than the Benz and Beemer.

True, BUT the Q45 gives you more for your MONEY that any of those two!

That depends on how you define "more".

- The Q has more power but has been slower than the Lexus in some magazine acceleration tests.
- The Q has a "sportier" suspension with bigger wheels and tires but the ride is nowhere near as good as the Lexus. Some would even argue that it isn't necessarily a better handling car because the car seems to be under-damped.
- The Q has traditionally had horrible resale value. That might not be important to some and might be changing but...
- The materials inside the Lexus are much richer than the Q. Again, the LS isn't as sporty but some "luxury" car buyers don't care about that.
- The Lexus is a smoother, softer car to drive (even with the "Euro/Sport" suspension option). That doesn't appeal to me but there's a lot of consumers who have this kind of jack to spend that care more about low NVH and a bad ass stereo than they do about turn in and on center steering feel.
- Finally, Lexus is the gold standard for customer satisfaction. As good as Infiniti is, it can't vouch for that.

Check my earlier posts, I'm not bashing the Q. I'm just reminding you all that the avg. luxury car buyer and certainly the avg. luxury car buyer shopping the LS430 isn't necessarily looking for the same things out of his ride that you and I are.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NewR
[B]

How about a

Mercedes E55 AMG.

The LS isn't a driver's car and is just not FUN to drive. I'm more a true car guy that likes feedback and not being as isolated, that's why I own my S. I still agree no car gives you more (features, luxury, performace, etc.) for the amount of money you pay than the Q does.

I resently test drove the Q45 with all the pkgs. I have to say that I would take it 10 times over my Aunt's LS430. For starters exclusivity, there are just too many LS's around here, second is a techno monster (I love bottons) it drives like a dream and with better tunning you can get more out of the VQ engine. The LS430 although nice it just feels bland. The Q45 stereo is the best I have ever heard in my life. Some reviews agree, but most do give the nod to the ML system in the LS - They are both damn good.

The 2003 Q45 now has a tweaked gears and now pulls the same as the M45 0-60 which was just tested at around 5.8.

My rankings:

1st: Infiniti Q45- Just my opinion, but I think it does nearly everything as well as or better than cars in its class that cost far more. And the styling is fantastic.

2nd: Audi A8- I haven't heard much about the new one but I love the sporty character of the current model and the new one will most likely be even better. A true sleeper!

3rd: Lexus LS430- I'm not a fan of the derivative styling or the limolike character, but this vehicle is amazingly refined, well-built, and competent.

4th: BMW 745i- The rear end is truly repulsive, I-Drive is over-complex, and it seems that this vehicle's sporty character has been diluted. The only thing I really like is the fantastic-looking interior.

5th: Mercedes S430 (closest in price to other cars)- By itself this vehicle is fine but compared to others in its class it looks plain, has some cheap interior bits, is relatively lacking in power, and is complicated to use (COMAND).