Why I bought an S2000
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From: Scatterbrainia
Why I bought an S2000
So I've been recently thinking about why I purchased an S2000, instead of a cheaper Miata. I mean, they're both 4 cylinder japanese roadsters, so why would I choose one over the other?
-I wanted a car that would be quick (I didn't say fast) in stock formation. Unfortunately, my current situation does not allow me extensive modification on a car, and the necessary shoptime/money/garage space, etc. etc. Call me a wuss for not modding my car, but believe it or not, some people like to keep the warranty on a $30k purchase, and can enjoy the car without having a pissing contest at every stop light (or the internet). I also do not have the luxury of having spare CRV's, Boxsters, Accords, etc. etc. lying around for my use. So the car had to remain mostly stock. Here, the S2000 triumphs over the Miata.
-I wanted a car that has trickle-down race technology. I love that I can tell people that the engine in my car has short-skirted low friction pistons, and the engine is the highest revving and has the highest output per liter of any N/A 4 cyl engine in the world. Why? I don't know. I just do. Maybe it's because I love technology, and I love that Honda is constantly pushing technology in their engines. It's fun to think that my 4 banger makes more HP than some 6 cylinders. Honda is at the forefront of engine technology (First mass produced car w/variable valve timing, first hybrid, etc.) and I suppose I would rather support Honda than Mazda for that reason. I would much rather have the engine in the S2000 (F20c/F22c) over the 1.6/1.8/2.0l in the Miata.
-I wanted a car that is attractive. I realize that this is a subjective matter, and I will not get everyone to agree with me on this. HOWEVER, I have friends who own Miatas, and nobody ever tells them that's a good looking car. I'm not saying it's bad looking, but it just doesn't evoke the same kind of response the S2000 does. Maybe it's the long nose and the aggressive headlamps. The S2000 turns more heads than a Miata would in a similar situation. Heck, I just think it flat out LOOKS BETTER and no amount of dyno charts or timeslips can ever change that. There is a stigma associated with Miatas because they have been around for 15+ years relatively unchanged. A used Miata can be had by any highschool student for $3k. While the Miata is a great car, it has devalued enough over time to become a cheap car and is easily accessible. The S2000 hasn't reached that point yet.
-I like the interior design of the S2000 better than the Miata. I enjoy that the S2000 was designed and executed purely as a driver's machine. Everything is focused on the driver, there are no extraneous frills and luxuries. I love that there is no center stack on the dash. The cockpit of the S2000 is about as close as you can get to a single-seat interior nowadays. The interior of the Miata, while nice in its own way, has more old-world charm. I didn't want old-world charm, it's nice, but not for me.
I guess that's about it. I realize that for the money I spent on the S2000, I could've bought a Miata. But I didn't want one. In fact, anyone with an S2000 could've bought a Miata, but I guess they didn't want one either. Now, no doubt there will be those who take this post to be a bashing of Miatas, but that's absolutely not the case. Like the S2000, the Miata is a great car, but not for everyone. And oddly enough, I'm so absolutely thrilled with my car, that I'm ok with letting other people be happy with what they bought, instead of assuming my priorities are shared with everyone else and telling them they should've bought an S2000.
-I wanted a car that would be quick (I didn't say fast) in stock formation. Unfortunately, my current situation does not allow me extensive modification on a car, and the necessary shoptime/money/garage space, etc. etc. Call me a wuss for not modding my car, but believe it or not, some people like to keep the warranty on a $30k purchase, and can enjoy the car without having a pissing contest at every stop light (or the internet). I also do not have the luxury of having spare CRV's, Boxsters, Accords, etc. etc. lying around for my use. So the car had to remain mostly stock. Here, the S2000 triumphs over the Miata.
-I wanted a car that has trickle-down race technology. I love that I can tell people that the engine in my car has short-skirted low friction pistons, and the engine is the highest revving and has the highest output per liter of any N/A 4 cyl engine in the world. Why? I don't know. I just do. Maybe it's because I love technology, and I love that Honda is constantly pushing technology in their engines. It's fun to think that my 4 banger makes more HP than some 6 cylinders. Honda is at the forefront of engine technology (First mass produced car w/variable valve timing, first hybrid, etc.) and I suppose I would rather support Honda than Mazda for that reason. I would much rather have the engine in the S2000 (F20c/F22c) over the 1.6/1.8/2.0l in the Miata.
-I wanted a car that is attractive. I realize that this is a subjective matter, and I will not get everyone to agree with me on this. HOWEVER, I have friends who own Miatas, and nobody ever tells them that's a good looking car. I'm not saying it's bad looking, but it just doesn't evoke the same kind of response the S2000 does. Maybe it's the long nose and the aggressive headlamps. The S2000 turns more heads than a Miata would in a similar situation. Heck, I just think it flat out LOOKS BETTER and no amount of dyno charts or timeslips can ever change that. There is a stigma associated with Miatas because they have been around for 15+ years relatively unchanged. A used Miata can be had by any highschool student for $3k. While the Miata is a great car, it has devalued enough over time to become a cheap car and is easily accessible. The S2000 hasn't reached that point yet.
-I like the interior design of the S2000 better than the Miata. I enjoy that the S2000 was designed and executed purely as a driver's machine. Everything is focused on the driver, there are no extraneous frills and luxuries. I love that there is no center stack on the dash. The cockpit of the S2000 is about as close as you can get to a single-seat interior nowadays. The interior of the Miata, while nice in its own way, has more old-world charm. I didn't want old-world charm, it's nice, but not for me.
I guess that's about it. I realize that for the money I spent on the S2000, I could've bought a Miata. But I didn't want one. In fact, anyone with an S2000 could've bought a Miata, but I guess they didn't want one either. Now, no doubt there will be those who take this post to be a bashing of Miatas, but that's absolutely not the case. Like the S2000, the Miata is a great car, but not for everyone. And oddly enough, I'm so absolutely thrilled with my car, that I'm ok with letting other people be happy with what they bought, instead of assuming my priorities are shared with everyone else and telling them they should've bought an S2000.
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When you say Mazda has the most advanced production engine in the world, you mean more specifically that it has the highest output per liter of a normally aspirated production engine, right? It is a great engine no doubt. Oil and gas consumption could be seen as trade-offs though.
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From: Scatterbrainia
Hey JBL:
First of all, your adding all those copied and pasted auto-x results really makes this thread difficult to read, and were not necessary. I wasn't trying to start an argument, so I see no point in your trying to refute my opinion. Feel free to edit them OUT of your last post, and replace with a statement that says: "I have the facts to prove this, really, I do."
See JBL this is where you are trying to steer the conversation towards YOUR agenda. Where in my original post did I say that Mazda isn't into racing? Read it again, and then stop putting words in my mouth. I know Mazda is into racing. People race lawnmowers too, but it doesn't mean I want to drive one to work. Why are you bringing LeMans, and the RX-8 into the mix? I said I liked driving the S2000 because it has specific things in it that I like. This posting was not a Honda vs. Mazda thread (as much as you would like to turn it into one), I was simply stating why I chose the S2000 over the Miata. Apparently I have hit a nerve with you. Mazda could make an RX-9 that goes 0-100mph in 3 seconds, all while scratching my ass and doing my taxes, but that still would not make the Miata more appealing than the S2000 to me. I am not saying the Miata is a bad car, or that Mazda is a bad company. Does that make sense?
Yes, looks are subjective. And yes, the "current" Miata is only a tiny bit older than the S2000. However, the deviation from the first gen Miata to the second gen Miata is not easily distinguishable to the everyday passerby. Which is why although there has been a body change from 1990 to 2005, it is still referred to as "A Miata" and will never be mistaken for anything else. Not that this is a bad thing. It's just not what I wanted. Also, as for the subjective issue, most of the people I have run into will agree that the S2000 looks better than the Miata, new or otherwise. But those are their subjective opinions, so don't argue with ME on that. Find them (lord knows you'll try) and argue with them please.
Yes. All F1 cars also use this old-world charm. That's all I'm going to say about that. Or do you want to say how your Miata could kick an F1 car's ass for cheaper?
Ha ha ha... saying this and accomplishing it are two different tasks. You have been wildly successful with one of them. I'll give you 2 chances to guess which one...
First of all, your adding all those copied and pasted auto-x results really makes this thread difficult to read, and were not necessary. I wasn't trying to start an argument, so I see no point in your trying to refute my opinion. Feel free to edit them OUT of your last post, and replace with a statement that says: "I have the facts to prove this, really, I do."
Mazda isn't into racing?
-They are the only Japanese manufacturer to win Le Mans.
-The RX-8 engine is the most advanced production engine in the world.
-The Miata Spec racing series is the most popular in the country right now.
-The Miata is also the most succesful autocrossing car in history.
-Mazda has a far better history in racing than Honda.
-They are the only Japanese manufacturer to win Le Mans.
-The RX-8 engine is the most advanced production engine in the world.
-The Miata Spec racing series is the most popular in the country right now.
-The Miata is also the most succesful autocrossing car in history.
-Mazda has a far better history in racing than Honda.
Looks are subjective, however:
-The NB Miata body debuted in 1998, as a 1999 Model. The S2K debuted in 1999, as a 2000 model.
-The S2K will soon be an older platform than the current Miata.
-The NB Miata body debuted in 1998, as a 1999 Model. The S2K debuted in 1999, as a 2000 model.
-The S2K will soon be an older platform than the current Miata.
Why didn't Honda put a real tach in their car, instead of 1980s digital technology?
I won't argue with your reasoning, as it's purely based on personal preference.
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From: Dallas
JLB, I am being honest when I say this; your behavior on this board is unhealthy. There's a difference between being proud of your car and being obsessed with tearing down other cars around you.
It's great that you're happy with your car. Go drive it and have fun and stop worrying about what others think about you and your car.
It's great that you're happy with your car. Go drive it and have fun and stop worrying about what others think about you and your car.
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From: Titusville
Originally Posted by s2kva,Aug 13 2005, 03:05 PM
When you say Mazda has the most advanced production engine in the world, you mean more specifically that it has the highest output per liter of a normally aspirated production engine, right? It is a great engine no doubt. Oil and gas consumption could be seen as trade-offs though.
The 2005 2006 Mazda RX8 rotary engine has far fewer moving parts than a comparable four-stroke piston engine. A new 2005 2006 2 rotor rotary engine has three main moving parts: the two rotors and the output shaft. Even the simplest 4 cylinder piston engine has at least 40 moving parts, including pistons, connecting rods, camshaft, valves, valve springs, rockers, timing belt, timing gears and crankshaft.
http://www.top100musclecarsites.com/Mazda-RX8.html
http://www.top100musclecarsites.com/Mazda-RX8.html
Car and Driver 2005: Best sports coupe
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...article_id=8923
Road Test: 2004 Honda S2000 vs. Mazda RX-8 vs. Nissan 350Z
,
Third Place: 2004 Honda S2000
First Place: 2004 Mazda RX-8
Unconventional thinking has its rewards. You'd be hardpressed to find anything conventional about the Mazda RX-8, and it turns out that's a good thing. Engine, steering, styling, and packaging are all unique.
To start with, the miniscule (by comparison) 1.3-liter twin-rotor engine produces an astounding 182 horsepower per liter, outpunching cars like the Porsche 911 and Ferrari Modena in specific output. We only wish it were more fuel-efficient at that size, as it earns the poorest (but only slightly) EPA mileage numbers here. What the engine does, however, is rev and produce power like an electric motor. So smooth and linear is the power delivery that Mazda installed a shift tone to remind the driver the engine is approaching the 9000-rpm rev limiter.
With such even torque delivery and so linear a horsepower curve, it's easy to imagine limitless engine revs. This is where the RX-8 and the similarly revvy S2000 differ. Even at 8500 rpm, there's nothing to indicate the RX-8's engine is strained or that power will ever cease, except for that reminder tone.
Power is routed through a tight, close-ratio six-speed transmission and a carbon-fiber composite driveshaft from the front-mid engine to the rear torque-sensing limited-slip differential. The engine, transmission, driveshaft, and rear end are all precisely located in a straight line to eliminate driveline vibration and noise. The 50/50 weight distribution shines in transient maneuvers like our slalom test. Further enhancing this well-connected feel, Mazda developed a new rack-drive electric power-steering unit. Unlike other electric steering aids, the RX-8's electric-assist motor is located within the steering rack itself and is neither artificially light-feeling nor laboriously notchy.
One might assume that the gaping hole formed by the pillarless double-door opening in each side of the RX-8 would translate into a wobbly chassis. Mazda has spent considerable time and effort to avoid this problem, using construction techniques including a rigid backbone frame, in-door high-strength steel pillars, and an innovative V-shaped brace extending from the rear end to the rear shock towers. There's also a full complement of front-, front/side-, and head-curtain airbags to ensure crashworthiness. Further, the Mazda rides quietly and happily in traffic and at the limit.
While steering feel is subjective, responsiveness can be measured. One of the best ways to do this is via a step-steer test. The concept is simple enough: Suddenly snap a predetermined amount of steering angle into the wheel and measure the time (hence, distance) the car travels before it attains its final lateral-g cornering rate. Here, we premeasured the steering angle each car needed to achieve 0.6 g at 30 mph and monitored the lateral-g forces via an accelerometer. Our trio's report card: All three are quick responders, but the RX-8 has the fastest reflexes, trailed by the S2000 and the heavier-feeling 350Z. The Honda seems to match the Mazda, but we suspect its quicker steering ratio contributes to that illusion.--Kim Reynolds
MT's Figure-Eight Test captures our three sports cars' performance envelopes as they charge around a 1/3-mile course. Composed of bursts of acceleration, braking, and cornering, it's rich in the subtleties of transient behavior. Consider the Average g value, which averages the absolute value of all the forces generated over an entire lap (including transitions). It's interesting to see how closely each car's lap time placed to one another for distinctly different reasons. Here we find the 350Z strongest in acceleration, while the S2000, though narrowly pipped by the Nissan's power, is best in cornering and braking. We found the RX-8 could run the entire course in second gear, while the S2000 and 350Z needed to shift between second and third gears to make a full lap.--K.R.
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0403_three/
,Third Place: 2004 Honda S2000
First Place: 2004 Mazda RX-8
Unconventional thinking has its rewards. You'd be hardpressed to find anything conventional about the Mazda RX-8, and it turns out that's a good thing. Engine, steering, styling, and packaging are all unique.
To start with, the miniscule (by comparison) 1.3-liter twin-rotor engine produces an astounding 182 horsepower per liter, outpunching cars like the Porsche 911 and Ferrari Modena in specific output. We only wish it were more fuel-efficient at that size, as it earns the poorest (but only slightly) EPA mileage numbers here. What the engine does, however, is rev and produce power like an electric motor. So smooth and linear is the power delivery that Mazda installed a shift tone to remind the driver the engine is approaching the 9000-rpm rev limiter.
With such even torque delivery and so linear a horsepower curve, it's easy to imagine limitless engine revs. This is where the RX-8 and the similarly revvy S2000 differ. Even at 8500 rpm, there's nothing to indicate the RX-8's engine is strained or that power will ever cease, except for that reminder tone.
Power is routed through a tight, close-ratio six-speed transmission and a carbon-fiber composite driveshaft from the front-mid engine to the rear torque-sensing limited-slip differential. The engine, transmission, driveshaft, and rear end are all precisely located in a straight line to eliminate driveline vibration and noise. The 50/50 weight distribution shines in transient maneuvers like our slalom test. Further enhancing this well-connected feel, Mazda developed a new rack-drive electric power-steering unit. Unlike other electric steering aids, the RX-8's electric-assist motor is located within the steering rack itself and is neither artificially light-feeling nor laboriously notchy.
One might assume that the gaping hole formed by the pillarless double-door opening in each side of the RX-8 would translate into a wobbly chassis. Mazda has spent considerable time and effort to avoid this problem, using construction techniques including a rigid backbone frame, in-door high-strength steel pillars, and an innovative V-shaped brace extending from the rear end to the rear shock towers. There's also a full complement of front-, front/side-, and head-curtain airbags to ensure crashworthiness. Further, the Mazda rides quietly and happily in traffic and at the limit.
While steering feel is subjective, responsiveness can be measured. One of the best ways to do this is via a step-steer test. The concept is simple enough: Suddenly snap a predetermined amount of steering angle into the wheel and measure the time (hence, distance) the car travels before it attains its final lateral-g cornering rate. Here, we premeasured the steering angle each car needed to achieve 0.6 g at 30 mph and monitored the lateral-g forces via an accelerometer. Our trio's report card: All three are quick responders, but the RX-8 has the fastest reflexes, trailed by the S2000 and the heavier-feeling 350Z. The Honda seems to match the Mazda, but we suspect its quicker steering ratio contributes to that illusion.--Kim Reynolds
MT's Figure-Eight Test captures our three sports cars' performance envelopes as they charge around a 1/3-mile course. Composed of bursts of acceleration, braking, and cornering, it's rich in the subtleties of transient behavior. Consider the Average g value, which averages the absolute value of all the forces generated over an entire lap (including transitions). It's interesting to see how closely each car's lap time placed to one another for distinctly different reasons. Here we find the 350Z strongest in acceleration, while the S2000, though narrowly pipped by the Nissan's power, is best in cornering and braking. We found the RX-8 could run the entire course in second gear, while the S2000 and 350Z needed to shift between second and third gears to make a full lap.--K.R.
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0403_three/