Originally Posted by rob-2

Originally Posted by JonBoy

The American muscle cars have generally surpassed all other competition in terms of performance. There is no denying it. To beat a Camaro SS 1LE or Mustang GT PP2 or Vette Grand Sport Z07, in terms of actual performance, you have to spend a LOT more money and usually end up with a much less reliable vehicle.

That said, as others have noted, they are still moderately heavy and you can't hide that. A Mustang GT costs about the same as a Miata RF with performance options and they definitely feel way different. But we know which one is fastest in anything except possibly auto-x.

I've loved the SS 1LE since it came out - a friend of mine has one - and would have no issue owning one. I'd be fine with a Mustang GT as well, with Track Pack/PP1 or PP2. That said, they are not tossable, agile cars. They just have incredible mechanical grip and very good chassis' with big tires and so they have a high performance envelope. That's quite a bit different than, say, an S2000 that doesn't have the same mechanical grip or total performance (acceleration or grip) but is more immediate and tossable. All of the above are fun; they just do it differently.

It's all about what you want in a car. For me, I'm leaning more towards lighter, more fun cars these days, rather than bigger, more powerful (and capable) cars. Something in between, like a Cayman or Boxster, really is the best choice, for me. 300-ish hp, 3000-ish lbs is the sweet spot....

Originally Posted by vader1

Not trying to put down a Hellcat, and I know someone who dailys one as well, just not something I could do. Getting 14mpg (maybe if I am lucky) in stop and go and know in the rain I am one pedal stomp from an oak tree would be too much for me. Muscle car maybe, have not wrapped my head around driving a steroid car on a daily basis. I bet leaving the guy a quarter mile behind you on the freeway on ramp is fun though.

Originally Posted by asrautox

^ This x1000. I've driven all of the modern muscle cars available in search of the perfect car, but each time I'd walk away feeling like something was missing. The problem for me is that their performance limits are so high, that they can't be reached during the daily commute. At least not without risking death or some serious jail time. When you're forced to drive a fast car slow, the experience becomes frustrating and boring. Ultimately you realize that big power and big weight are not nearly as pleasurable as light-weight, tossable, moderately powerful cars that offer driving engagement over brute force. A Cayman S equivalent with a stick, warranty, ~350hp, for $35k is the car I'm searching for but still haven't found..

Originally Posted by TommyDeVito

Originally Posted by rob-2

There is something fun about rowing 4 gears floored and still not breaking 80. Then you get behind the wheel of real muscle and that single shift is still more fun. I touch triples most days. No tickets.

Originally Posted by vader1

I have owned a high powered (modded) car that was pretty quick and yeah it is fun, the problem I have, and we are talking about personal preference here, to each their own, I find a car to be a lot less fun when my major impression of the car is that it feels "big". I have only sat in a Challenger at the auto show, and I thought that it was HUGE. I drove the last gen Camaro, decent car, but it felt big, the newer one is supposed to be better in that respect, have not drive one yet. Not really what most people cross shop but I am lookin M240i, Camaro/Mustang, and a Miata. Kind of a goofy set of cars.

As far as mileage goes, I need it to be tolerable and that means low twenties. You may find it a lame excuse, but I can have a car that hauls ass and gets high twenties to low thirties or one that gets half that, it does not make much sense to me unless it is wayyyy more fun. I can afford the gas if I am looking at getting a third car for giggles, but it just becomes pointless to keep filling large tanks of premium and getting 14mpg unless the fun factor is way better. And from the experience I have had with big fast heavy cars and fast little cars is that to me anyway, the big fast ones don't offer enough to justify just burning gas for the sake of it. If it does for you, cool. And I actually prefer the little tossable ones anyway.