Is Hyundai the new Honda?
11-07-2011, 10:57 AM
#21
Registered User
I think the core argument of the article is that Hyundai is building cars that the consumers want, while Honda is really not keeping up with what people want to buy.
Maybe this is what they mean by innovation as opposed to solely innovative gadgets and technologies. Creating a car that people want as tastes/trends evolve could be considered innovative?
On further thought, it seems to me that Hyundai is building cars with higher percieved value than Honda. The car is nice looking, well appointed, fuel efficient and in cases sport, for a good price. To me this is what Honda used to be - nice cars at a price point that many people felt was the best value.
Maybe this is what they mean by innovation as opposed to solely innovative gadgets and technologies. Creating a car that people want as tastes/trends evolve could be considered innovative?
On further thought, it seems to me that Hyundai is building cars with higher percieved value than Honda. The car is nice looking, well appointed, fuel efficient and in cases sport, for a good price. To me this is what Honda used to be - nice cars at a price point that many people felt was the best value.
11-07-2011, 11:36 AM
#22
Registered User
Originally Posted by dombey' timestamp='1320685255' post='21135295
I don't really get it.
First the article makes a point that Honda used to innovate and listed a number of areas where they innovated.
Then it goes on to say how Hyundai is current and Honda is not.
Sorry, but being current and up-to-date has nothing to do with innovating...this article offers zero evidence that hyundai has ever innovated at all whatsoever. It started as a copier, and it is still a copier...it just does it upscale relative to the past.
Article = weak
First the article makes a point that Honda used to innovate and listed a number of areas where they innovated.
Then it goes on to say how Hyundai is current and Honda is not.
Sorry, but being current and up-to-date has nothing to do with innovating...this article offers zero evidence that hyundai has ever innovated at all whatsoever. It started as a copier, and it is still a copier...it just does it upscale relative to the past.
Article = weak
As for the post who said "destroy" this and that, please! That's just a subjective argument.
Not to mention Asimo.
11-07-2011, 12:11 PM
#23
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I would pay quite a bit of money for Asimo, if it could Dougie.
As far as Hyundai vs Honda... I think that Hyundai is definitely on the right track with their current lineup. Honda doesn't currently offer a SINGLE car that I'm crazy about. I like the CRZ simply because it's trying to make hybrid cars cool, and I really hope it succeeds so that Honda keeps developing fun to drive hybrids BUT... I just don't really care about fuel economy, and there's nothing else about that car that would pull me towards it if I were looking to buy a new car. I think Honda needs to wake up, and do it quickly.
As far as Hyundai vs Honda... I think that Hyundai is definitely on the right track with their current lineup. Honda doesn't currently offer a SINGLE car that I'm crazy about. I like the CRZ simply because it's trying to make hybrid cars cool, and I really hope it succeeds so that Honda keeps developing fun to drive hybrids BUT... I just don't really care about fuel economy, and there's nothing else about that car that would pull me towards it if I were looking to buy a new car. I think Honda needs to wake up, and do it quickly.
11-07-2011, 01:11 PM
#24
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this is like one of those old skool standardized tests, where they give you a passage, and then the question is "the best title for this passage is...a,b,c or d"
The title just doesn't fit the content. If you want to get the point across that honda is boring and lagging in adoption of some key technologies, fine...but your title needs to reflect that.
The title just doesn't fit the content. If you want to get the point across that honda is boring and lagging in adoption of some key technologies, fine...but your title needs to reflect that.
11-07-2011, 02:33 PM
#25
Sorry but they're improving but they're also a lot of hype. Honda got where they were through efficiency, reliability and mechanical simplicity and ingenuity. They played the price card as well but they weren't "made" by advertising or even good looks - they did it through actual performance and proven designs.
Hyundai has (at best) average engines. Lots of new/latest technology (in some cases) but not great execution with their less-than-smooth feel or sound. Their real-world fuel economy is worse than Honda and a lot of others (Kia is even worse, in most cases). Their chassis and suspension designs are mediocre at best. What they have is lots of features, some good looks and great advertising for a very competitive price. Look at the latest round of tests that are happening with the Sonata, for instance: dead last in two of the latest comparos with the 2.0T motor getting slower acceleration AND worse gas mileage than the V6s of the competitors, with less-than-optimal chassis/suspension tuning. What's happening? The value equation is getting skewed back to actual performance and holding Hyundai to its claims instead of drooling over looks or features. With the honeymoon over, the media is starting to realize, "Hey - these cars are a huge step forward (like Ford's recent offerings) but they're not actually as good as we initially thought."
And, Honda is still selling way more cars than Hyundai. On the other hand, Hyundai has higher growth percentages, which makes sense since they weren't really selling much initially. So, Hyundai has momentum BUT they're also topping out pretty fast. They've essentially plateau'd for monthly sales and aren't really rising much these days, as best I remember, so it'll be interesting to see if they keep going up.
Three-year reliability will be a big factor as well, not to mention resale values and the perceived "cachet" or "value" that goes with those numbers.
In short, Hyundai is (for now) still an unproven company. The strength of their current products as they hit some key time and mileage milestones will much more clearly define the brand and how it performs in the future.
Hyundai has (at best) average engines. Lots of new/latest technology (in some cases) but not great execution with their less-than-smooth feel or sound. Their real-world fuel economy is worse than Honda and a lot of others (Kia is even worse, in most cases). Their chassis and suspension designs are mediocre at best. What they have is lots of features, some good looks and great advertising for a very competitive price. Look at the latest round of tests that are happening with the Sonata, for instance: dead last in two of the latest comparos with the 2.0T motor getting slower acceleration AND worse gas mileage than the V6s of the competitors, with less-than-optimal chassis/suspension tuning. What's happening? The value equation is getting skewed back to actual performance and holding Hyundai to its claims instead of drooling over looks or features. With the honeymoon over, the media is starting to realize, "Hey - these cars are a huge step forward (like Ford's recent offerings) but they're not actually as good as we initially thought."
And, Honda is still selling way more cars than Hyundai. On the other hand, Hyundai has higher growth percentages, which makes sense since they weren't really selling much initially. So, Hyundai has momentum BUT they're also topping out pretty fast. They've essentially plateau'd for monthly sales and aren't really rising much these days, as best I remember, so it'll be interesting to see if they keep going up.
Three-year reliability will be a big factor as well, not to mention resale values and the perceived "cachet" or "value" that goes with those numbers.
In short, Hyundai is (for now) still an unproven company. The strength of their current products as they hit some key time and mileage milestones will much more clearly define the brand and how it performs in the future.
11-07-2011, 02:37 PM
#26
I hate and always will hate Hyundai and there stupid little Korean cars, so this article for me is a 
11-07-2011, 02:44 PM
#27
Site Moderator
Originally Posted by Manga_Spawn' timestamp='1320688050' post='21135464
I can see that side of the arguement but at the very least hyundai is using newer technology and they are making a point to compete with other brands where Honda seems to be complacent. Like the article points out Honda has no sports oriented car, their luxury line is terrible and outdated, the Crz is a failure as both a sport compact and as a hybrid, and all the while they have all the technology at the finger tips to destroy Hyundai and the rest of the japanese brands for that matter. Where both Nissan and Toyota are making efforts to expand the line Honda has added little to its line up. Nissan has the Z cars and the GTR, Toyota has the upcoming BRZ, ISF, and LFA, none of which Honda has an answer for. Hyundai has the gen coupe, veloster, sonata, Equus, and Gen sedan which are all better value than the Honda competators and I think nicer looking cars (still not sure about the whole 3 door thing but maybe).
Case in point Honda seems to be frozen in time and while they could be producing cars with current technology done the Honda way which almost always means the better way. I think they have always viewed companies like Hyundai with the thinking that they would never catch up to Honda but they have. Honda needs to remember that they were once viewed the same way and it drove them to produce great cars that changed the automotive world. Complacent is the best word I can use for Honda's current state and that is never a good thing for any company to be when you have hungry competitors that have been trying to surpass you for the last 20+ years.
Case in point Honda seems to be frozen in time and while they could be producing cars with current technology done the Honda way which almost always means the better way. I think they have always viewed companies like Hyundai with the thinking that they would never catch up to Honda but they have. Honda needs to remember that they were once viewed the same way and it drove them to produce great cars that changed the automotive world. Complacent is the best word I can use for Honda's current state and that is never a good thing for any company to be when you have hungry competitors that have been trying to surpass you for the last 20+ years.
11-07-2011, 03:01 PM
#28
Registered User
Forget the past and look at the present.
If Honda started to introduce models with direct injection, turbos (outside of the RDX, which seems like a very big disappointment in both sales and mpg/hp), rear wheel drives cars, a REAL sports car (not CRZ). That would get my mojo going.
Since they're laying back and haven't introduced more in thier line-up like better electronics, chassis, motors, etc etc. They will continue to lose customers.
I for one have a 2007 Fit with very low mileage (20,000) that has rust developing on the door. I would have never thought this would be a problem when I bought the car, sign of the times I guess and maybe should have gone with the Elantra instead.
Better fuel economy, hp, cool gadgets, better price/warranty.
Sonata has the world record for MPG on a hybrid, a 2.0T that puts out decent #'s, cool electronics and latest engine technologies. All for a better price then in it's class.
It's hard to stand up for Honda.
If Honda started to introduce models with direct injection, turbos (outside of the RDX, which seems like a very big disappointment in both sales and mpg/hp), rear wheel drives cars, a REAL sports car (not CRZ). That would get my mojo going.
Since they're laying back and haven't introduced more in thier line-up like better electronics, chassis, motors, etc etc. They will continue to lose customers.
I for one have a 2007 Fit with very low mileage (20,000) that has rust developing on the door. I would have never thought this would be a problem when I bought the car, sign of the times I guess and maybe should have gone with the Elantra instead.
Better fuel economy, hp, cool gadgets, better price/warranty.
Sonata has the world record for MPG on a hybrid, a 2.0T that puts out decent #'s, cool electronics and latest engine technologies. All for a better price then in it's class.
It's hard to stand up for Honda.
11-07-2011, 05:42 PM
#29
Site Moderator
There is not a single honda offered that have been excited about. Everyone I am excited about is not sold to us or not made like that 200HP Crz they were playing with. Bottom line they currently make a bunch of forgetable cars at best and some cars that I can only think because I find the ugly and pointless.
