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Old 05-03-2010, 12:18 PM
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jesus, the level of self-delusion is incredible. keep thinking that way people, and the chinese will own us one of these days soon, and not just in the "they buy our government bonds" ownership. we should be alarmed that they can produce quality knock-offs, because all you need is 1% of that one billion people to have an original thought and america might will truly become just a 20th century story.
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mingster,May 3 2010, 03:18 PM
jesus, the level of self-delusion is incredible. keep thinking that way people, and the chinese will own us one of these days soon, and not just in the "they buy our government bonds" ownership. we should be alarmed that they can produce quality knock-offs, because all you need is 1% of that one billion people to have an original thought and america might will truly become just a 20th century story.
mingster - the above comments about how art appreciation works in the Chinese culture, what is your opinion of that?
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC,May 3 2010, 08:32 AM
You are right.....lest we forget the 99% of everything we own.
It's zero percent for me - some products I own have some components made in China, but I don't own any electronics devices that have a Chinese manufacturers name and logo on it. I can't even think of a name brand Chinese product or logo. It's not because I'm prejudiced or biased against Chinese products, it's just because all they offer are cheap ripoffs.

Here's a list of brand names I see on the devices on my desk in front of me -

Sony - Japan
Lucky Goldstar - Korea
Dell - USA
Blackberry - USA
Microsoft - USA
Harmon Kardon - USA
Hewlett Packard - USA

After decades of making cheap copies, there are still no Chinese manufacturers that offer the quality these manufacturers offer for the devices I own. The only people I know of who specifically look to buy the cheap Chinese copies are the people who can't afford to buy the real thing. And there is no "quality" in those copies - they never work right or if they do, they break very quickly. That's why they sell for a fraction of the real product - you get what what you pay for.
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Old 05-03-2010, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Elistan,May 3 2010, 04:21 PM
mingster - the above comments about how art appreciation works in the Chinese culture, what is your opinion of that?
i'm no expert on chinese art, my grandfather & my dad are. from what i understand from them, it's not necessarily the "oldness" of the artwork but the uniqueness of each artist. take calligraphy, in chinese the way it's learned for thousands of years is to understand and (yes imitate) former masters of various styles before one's own style appears (and for millions of poor saps, they never did and many died in poverty trying to become a famous artist). i used to think my grandfather was crazy when he pointed to 2 pieces on his wall in reverence and appreciation, and in my american eyes all i saw were the same squiggly lines (similar poems) that were written with the same black ink. now my grandfather has his own style and there's even some kind of name for it among his students, dissertations written about his style, and all kinds of i'm sure are important yet-nonsense-to-me books about his calligraphy works.

my point is not meant to address the acts of the chinese or pass judgment on their (sometimes poor) work. however, it's alarming to me that in this day and age there are still many people in our country who don't feel the urgency or the need to address this emerging power and blindly think that the days of american supremacy is still alive and well. if there is one thing we as americans don't understand is the burden of history the chinese people as a whole collectively carries in their psyche. you know how american indians pass on their lores so that their ancestors' stories are heard hundreds of years later as if it happened yesterday? imagine doing that by the billion, and add a few twists of historical facts and you have a billion souls who are determined to never again be discriminated as weaklings, cities burned & sacked by foreigners, women & children raped & murdered by blond hair blue eyed westerners (and japanese, of course, lest we forget), government officials forced to its knees, its citizens poisoned by foreign drugs, treasures stolen and displayed in foreign lands, and most importantly, the collective humility put on the entire nation of people.

my 2 cents.
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Old 05-03-2010, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Not Sure,May 3 2010, 04:22 PM
It's zero percent for me - some products I own have some components made in China, but I don't own any electronics devices that have a Chinese manufacturers name and logo on it. I can't even think of a name brand Chinese product or logo. It's not because I'm prejudiced or biased against Chinese products, it's just because all they offer are cheap ripoffs.

Here's a list of brand names I see on the devices on my desk in front of me -

Sony - Japan
Lucky Goldstar - Korea
Dell - USA
Blackberry - USA
Microsoft - USA
Harmon Kardon - USA
Hewlett Packard - USA

After decades of making cheap copies, there are still no Chinese manufacturers that offer the quality these manufacturers offer for the devices I own. The only people I know of who specifically look to buy the cheap Chinese copies are the people who can't afford to buy the real thing. And there is no "quality" in those copies - they never work right or if they do, they break very quickly. That's why they sell for a fraction of the real product - you get what what you pay for.
just because you've got a brand doesn't mean it's really made by the brand owners, and you'll be surprised how much products you're using are simply twists of ODM (original design manufacturers) designs with a label. since you obviously never worked retail or in CE i won't even bother with the lengthy lesson, but know that what you buy today is rarely what you think you're buying. i laugh when you say "I can't even think of a name brand Chinese product or logo." because you're buying products the chinese designed slapped with a label you trust. it's called "brand equity" in marketing, and certainly in your case it worked as intended, along with handing over quite a bit more dollars for that illusion (and royalty).
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Not Sure,Apr 30 2010, 03:14 PM
Everything the Chinese make copies of only look like the originals on the outside - on inside they are held together with glue and paper clips.
Why am I reminded of Bizzarro Superman?

Actually, the red coupe from the OP does not look bad except for the headlights.
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:39 PM
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Disregard.
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mingster,May 3 2010, 05:11 PM
i'm no expert on chinese art, my grandfather & my dad are. from what i understand from them, it's not necessarily the "oldness" of the artwork but the uniqueness of each artist. take calligraphy, in chinese the way it's learned for thousands of years is to understand and (yes imitate) former masters of various styles before one's own style appears (and for millions of poor saps, they never did and many died in poverty trying to become a famous artist). i used to think my grandfather was crazy when he pointed to 2 pieces on his wall in reverence and appreciation, and in my american eyes all i saw were the same squiggly lines (similar poems) that were written with the same black ink. now my grandfather has his own style and there's even some kind of name for it among his students, dissertations written about his style, and all kinds of i'm sure are important yet-nonsense-to-me books about his calligraphy works.

my point is not meant to address the acts of the chinese or pass judgment on their (sometimes poor) work. however, it's alarming to me that in this day and age there are still many people in our country who don't feel the urgency or the need to address this emerging power and blindly think that the days of american supremacy is still alive and well. if there is one thing we as americans don't understand is the burden of history the chinese people as a whole collectively carries in their psyche. you know how american indians pass on their lores so that their ancestors' stories are heard hundreds of years later as if it happened yesterday? imagine doing that by the billion, and add a few twists of historical facts and you have a billion souls who are determined to never again be discriminated as weaklings, cities burned & sacked by foreigners, women & children raped & murdered by blond hair blue eyed westerners (and japanese, of course, lest we forget), government officials forced to its knees, its citizens poisoned by foreign drugs, treasures stolen and displayed in foreign lands, and most importantly, the collective humility put on the entire nation of people.

my 2 cents.
I spent a semester studying Chinese culture, so I'm pretty confident I get how it works in a general sense. I'm not trying to say that everything is about imitation, I'm simply pointing out that copying something doesn't carry the negative stigma in China that it does here.

I agree it's foolish to think China will always be copying and won't learn anything. However, I also think it's foolish to assume China's auto industry will develop just like Japan's or Korea's. They're different countries and they've all responded to Westernization very differently. The auto industry won't be an exception, most likely.
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Old 05-04-2010, 04:20 PM
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[QUOTE=tarheel91,May 4 2010, 01:41 PM] I agree it's foolish to think China will always be copying and won't learn anything.
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Old 05-04-2010, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Not Sure,May 3 2010, 12:22 PM
Blackberry - USA
Realy?

http://na.blackberry.com/eng/contact/

Corporate Head Office
Research In Motion
295 Phillip Street
Waterloo, Ontario
Canada N2L 3W8

tel: (519) 888-7465
fax: (519) 888-7884
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